MissRose
Registered: 08/15/12
Posts: 25
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Posted 09/06/12
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#1
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Hello again, I am having some problems giving my girl her daily medications. She has decided that everything that she is given is going to have a pill enclosed. Smart girl that she is, she will take the "treat" spit it out and investigate before eating. At this point I am providing hospice care for her and I don't want her to be in any pain. I have tried peanut butter sandwiches, lunch meat, butter, cream cheese and hot dogs, nothing is working anymore. I can't bear to see my big girl in any pain. I have also tried putting pills at the back of her throat and trying to make her swallow, but this is traumatizing for both of us. I am sure that we only have a short time left and don't want to spoil our last days together. We have made the decision to euthanize, picked a burial place and I am just trying to coordinate with my family a time when she can be buried immediately as my vet doesn't have space to keep her for me until I can do this. I am heartbroken about this. It was hard enough to make the decision and then to have to wait is excruciating. Unfortunately I have no other choice as her other family has a problem with creamation. Anyway, long story short, I am just looking for a way to keep her pain free for the rest of her days. I am hoping someone can help me. Thanks, Stephanie
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Grant
Registered: 10/03/10
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Posted 09/06/12
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#2
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I have been there a few times, and have tried all you have as well !!
What i do now, is crush the tablets between two spoons and sprinkle the powder on the food that they cannot resist, and mash it in to disguise it !!
I am not saying that this is how you should give all dogs tablets, because some tablets have a coating that lets the med out slowly, but for what you are trying to do i think it is the way to go !!
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BlusMom
Registered: 03/23/12
Posts: 440
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Posted 09/06/12
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#3
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I hae resorted to 2 pieces of treat first then treat with pill then a follo up piece of treat. Because
1-Dogs are too damn smart for their own good and humans are terribly predictable.
2-Dogs can count so if you set up every thing first then lay the treats out where she can see but not get them by the second or third treat she will forget about the hidden pill.
3-I never want to to "wrestle the pill in" but sometimes I pop it in there then close their mouths and blow on their nose. they lick their nose and boom pill swallowed.
Hope this helps with some ideas for you time you have left together.
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SteveOifer
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#4
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Easiest way is to put the pill towards the very back of their throat.
You can only do this with dogs that trust you and are not going to become aggressive if you make the attempt.
Best to hold the upper muzzle with the left hand (fingers over the bridge of the muzzle), with the dog's upper lip around it's upper teeth and between your thumb. Then with the right hand, just place the pill all the way back and close the dogs mouth.
The reason why it's best to have the dog's upper lip covering his teeth, is because if he trys to bite down, he will feel the pressure on his lip and relax rather than bear down.
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"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
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SteveOifer
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#5
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The reason why I don't like to place the pill in food, is because some medications are meant to dissolve in the stomach, or may be time released and if the pill is severed by the teeth before it is swallowed, it can irritate the esophagus, or render the pill less effective.
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Grant
Registered: 10/03/10
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Posted 09/06/12
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#6
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Quote: Originally Posted by SteveOifer
The reason why I don't like to place the pill in food, is because some medications are meant to dissolve in the stomach, or may be time released and if the pill is severed by the teeth before it is swallowed, it can irritate the esophagus, or render the pill less effective.
Steve
Stephanie has tried all what you have said !!
She has made her decision, and wants to keep the dog as comfortable as possible before she goes !!
A broken or crushed pill can be more effective in getting the med into the system of an old dog !!
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MaineMastiff
Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 229
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Posted 09/06/12
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#7
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So sorry you are going through this!
We went through the doggy hospice thing with Mishka last fall. It was heartbreaking. Thankfully, he was good about taking medication, since he got up to the maximum tramadol dose (24 a day, plus holistic meds and 3 rimadyl). I rolled pills in cream cheese and the stickiness kept him from spitting them out...I'm sorry to hear that cream cheese is not working for your Rose.
Other than Grant's idea, which is a good one, my only other thought is if she is in a place where she can do a little light obedience, sometimes it helps if they think they are getting a treat for being good as opposed to a medicine.
Or maybe your vet would be willing to give a fentanyl patch for pain, since she won't take anything orally?
My thoughts are with you both!
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Crossroads
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#8
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I have some super picky pill takers too. I have some success with pudding and ice cream. I will give a couple bites with no pill then I'll slip a pill in there. Then I'll give a few more bites with no pill. My dogs all love ice cream so that seems to work best, but they also get excited when they see a pudding cup.
I'm so sorry you're going through this.
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MissRose
Registered: 08/15/12
Posts: 25
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Posted 09/06/12
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#9
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Thanks for all your help. My husband brought us home a roast beef end. I cut off a piece split a hole in the center for the pills and fold in half for her. Working so far! I give one treat to rose one for my puppy so she thinks we are playing. Less suspicious that way. Its hard to believe soon she will be gone. I am comforting myself by using this time to love her up extra and spoil her tremendously. Its bittersweet this hospice time and again thanks to all for the support. Its nice to know someone else understands.
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LindaGreesonRice
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Registered: 05/06/06
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Posted 09/06/12
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#10
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You might try liverwurst. I have never had a dog turn that down. Like you say, try giving her some liverwurst balls that do not have a pill in them.. she will never notice when you give her a loaded ball.
This has to be a terriable time for you. My heart goes out to you.. it will be so much easier to handle once it is over.
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Tracy
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Registered: 05/30/06
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Posted 09/06/12
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#11
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Awe I feel for you. I have tried all that you mention, plus ice cream which works well. At my house one of the better tricks is to have everyone waiting for the ice cream, a spoon here, a spoon there, and then one with the pill in it. If all else fails, coat the pill with butter to make it slide easier, put it in the back of the mouth, and dribble a little water with a syringe in the side of the mouth, guarantees the swallowing reflex, and the butter stops it from sticking in the throat. I have also crushed up tabs, mixed with water and squirted thru a syringe.
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Dixie
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#12
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Tator Tots works. Also for hospice care, I used liver pate' Yes, it was pricey
and we got it at the Deli. She wouldn't eat liverwurst but for some reason
pate' she loved.
To keep up her strength, I also scrambled eggs in butter!
Really do try the pate'
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Tess
Registered: 12/02/09
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Posted 09/07/12
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#13
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My girl was on antibiotics for a month (3 x a day) and I had to get very creative with giving her meds. What worked best was to open the capsules up and use a variety of different foods to sprinkle it on. If I used the same food 2 x in a row she wouldn't eat it. I would start with a food you have not used before because your dog is now associating that food with medicine and than change the food frequently. Some of the different foods I used were, yogurt, apple sauce, chicken soup, sardines, peanut butter, ice cream, mashed bananas, tomato sauce. Just keep changing it up. You also might try waiting a couple of days before trying to give meds again. Your dog is used to the 'daily med battle' so take 2 or 3 days off and than try again. That might break up the routine enough to get them started on the meds.
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erikam
Registered: 01/21/12
Posts: 1,530
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Posted 09/07/12
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#14
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you could try a compounding service like this
http://www.pet-scripts.com/petscripts_products_services.html
braunschweiger, or liverwurst is usually successful with us - also thawed frozen meatballs. I too use the two - treat method, because my dogs are very greedy they will chomp down the first (loaded) to get the second, Sometimes I mix it up - unloaded, loaded, unloaded. And when someone is being picky, I treat another dog a bunch first. Also raw burger makes good pill wrappers, and banana too. Wet cat food.
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Teresa
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#15
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I have one old girl who is suspicious of anything I try to give her by hand. She has to take several thyroid tablets a day. Believe it ir not, I just put the tabs in her regular feeding and she inhales them with her kibble.,
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SteveOifer
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Quote: A broken or crushed pill can be more effective in getting the med into the system of an old dog !!
Grant, some meds are not meant to be crushed. It can alter the efficacy of the product.
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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Grant
Registered: 10/03/10
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Posted 09/07/12
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#17
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Quote: Originally Posted by SteveOiferQuote: A broken or crushed pill can be more effective in getting the med into the system of an old dog !! Grant, some meds are not meant to be crushed. It can alter the efficacy of the product.
I think post 2, should tell you, i know this !!
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Grant
Registered: 10/03/10
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#18
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There is a Mastiff in this film, being used to show how to admin tablets !
http://video.about.com/vetmedicine/How-to-Give-a-Dog-a-Pill.htm
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erikam
Registered: 01/21/12
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Stephanie I just realized you are in MA - if there is anyway I can help please let me know. End of life choices for our pets are very tough, and I do not know what you have available to you in your area, I am only familiar with the wonderful services we have down here on the south shore. Anyway, if there is any help that you need in the last days of your sweet baby, please let me know, there are caring mastiff people through out MA and we will help if we can.
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SteveOifer
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Quote: I think post 2, should tell you, i know this !!
It's not just because of time released factors.
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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Grant
Registered: 10/03/10
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#21
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Quote: Originally Posted by SteveOiferQuote: I think post 2, should tell you, i know this !! It's not just because of time released factors.
Steve, i added to my post that crushing tablets was not always advisable, with one example reason, which was adequate warning for what this thread is about !!
Start a thread on the debatable rights and wrongs of giving tablets to an old dog, if you feel there is a need !!
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Dixie
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that was an excellent video on how to give a pill.
I did ask my vet techs how they gave pills (capsules-time release) and they
said, well the dog has to have it so we open the pill and put it in food. But
I tried it and then my dog wouldn't eat her food...I guess the taste was
nasty
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SteveOifer
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Grant, just go to post #6 and you'll see that I'm not the one needing to start a thread!
What I posted was for a general understanding of why it's not best to crush pills. I have no doubt that other Mastiff owners will need to administer pills as well and it might serve them better to be aware of such factors. If Stephanie has an issue with the delivery of a pill, then she will no doubt use other alternatives!
__________________
For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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SteveOifer
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#24
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tries not trys.....earlier typo
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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Grant
Registered: 10/03/10
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Posted 09/07/12
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#25
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Quote: Originally Posted by SteveOifer
What I posted was for a general understanding of why it's not best to crush pills.
No one said it was best !
Anyone can Google on how to take or admin meds, and crushing is but one way that could be best for certain situations !!
Tablets could be useless swallowed whole in other situations !!
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MissRose
Registered: 08/15/12
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#26
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Hello. Thank you to everyone for your kindness. Its of great comfort to me. The hardest thing and also the best thing is my girl has a happy upbeat attitude. The meds I am worried about are tramadol. So far ive managed to get all doses down. I have stopped all other meds. I figure its best not to fight about the joint supplements and the proin. I don't want her worrying about holding her bladder and the phycox is not helping anyway. I luckily have a great support system to help with this. I am also getting lots of big slobbery kisses from my girl. In the past she was stingy with the kisses so I cherish every one of them. Thanks again for everyones support.
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Grant
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Posted 09/08/12
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#27
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Tramadol comes in many forms, including: - capsules (regular and extended release)
- tablets (regular, extended release, chewable, low-residue and/or uncoated tablets that can be taken by the sublingual and buccal routes)
- suppositories
- effervescent tablets and powders
- ampules of sterile solution for SC, IM, and IV injection
- preservative-free solutions for injection by the various spinal routes (epidural, intrathecal, caudal, and others)
- powders for compounding
- liquids both with and without alcohol for oral and sub-lingual administration, available in regular phials and bottles, dropper bottles, bottles with a pump similar to those used with liquid soap and phials with droppers built into the cap
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