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svkrazy516

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Hello,

I wanted to know the status of black mastiffs.  Are they an occurance in purebred English Mastiffs and can they be registered at all? 

 

My mastiff is solid jet black with a tiny touch of white on his chest.  The woman who sold him to us said that he was 'registered' but when we got there she 'couldnt find the papers.' But we were in love with him anyway.  He is built just like an English Mastiff and NOT a Neopolitan Mastiff. 

 

Just curious.  Thanks!

 

P.S. I tried to search on the topic but found no results that answer this.

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General Appearance
The Mastiff is a large, massive, symmetrical dog with a well-knit frame. The impression is one of grandeur and dignity. Dogs are more massive throughout. Bitches should not be faulted for being somewhat smaller in all dimensions while maintaining a proportionally powerful structure. A good evaluation considers positive qualities of type and soundness with equal weight.

Size, Proportion, Substance
Size - Dogs, minimum, 30 inches at the shoulder. Bitches, minimum, 27-1/2 inches at the shoulder. Fault-Dogs or bitches below the minimum standard. The farther below standard, the greater the fault.
Proportion - Rectangular, the length of the dog from forechest to rump is somewhat longer than the height at the withers. The height of the dog should come from depth of body rather than from length of leg.
Substance - Massive, heavy boned, with a powerful muscle structure. Great depth and breadth desirable. Fault-Lack of substance or slab sided.

Head
In general outline giving a massive appearance when viewed from any angle. Breadth greatly desired. Eyes - set wide apart, medium in size, never too prominent. Expression alert but kindly. Color of eyes brown, the darker the better, and showing no haw. Light eyes or a predatory expression is undesirable.

    Ears - Small in proportion to the skull, V-shaped, rounded at the tips. Leather moderately thin, set widely apart at the highest points on the sides of the skull continuing the outline across the summit. They should lie close to the cheeks when in repose. Ears dark in color, the blacker the better, conforming to the color of the muzzle.

Skull - broad and somewhat flattened between the ears, forehead slightly curved, showing marked wrinkles which are particularly distinctive when at attention. Brows (superciliary ridges) moderately raised. Muscles of the temples well developed, those of the cheeks extremely powerful. Arch across the skull a flattened curve with a furrow up the center of the forehead. This extends from between the eyes to halfway up the skull. The stop between the eyes well marked but not too abrupt. Muzzle should be half the length of the skull, thus dividing the head into three parts-one for the foreface and two for the skull. In other words, the distance from the tip of the nose to stop is equal to one-half the distance between the stop and the occiput. Circumference of the muzzle (measured midway between the eyes and nose) to that of the head (measured before the ears) is as 3 is to 5.

Muzzle - short, broad under the eyes and running nearly equal in width to the end of the nose. Truncated, i.e. blunt and cut off square, thus forming a right angle with the upper line of the face. Of great depth from the point of the nose to the underjaw. Underjaw broad to the end and slightly rounded. Muzzle dark in color, the blacker the better. Fault-snipiness of the muzzle.
Nose - broad and always dark in color, the blacker the better, with spread flat nostrils (not pointed or turned up) in profile.
 

Lips - diverging at obtuse angles with the septum and sufficiently pendulous so as to show a modified square profile.
Canine Teeth - healthy and wide apart. Jaws powerful. Scissors bite preferred, but a moderately undershot jaw should not be faulted providing the teeth are not visible when the mouth is closed.


Neck, Topline, Body
Neck - powerful, very muscular, slightly arched, and of medium length. The neck gradually increases in circumference as it approaches the shoulder. Neck moderately "dry" (not showing an excess of loose skin).
Topline -In profile the topline should be straight, level, and firm, not swaybacked, roached, or dropping off sharply behind the high point of the rump.
Chest - wide, deep, rounded, and well let down between the forelegs, extending at least to the elbow. Forechest should be deep and well defined with the breastbone extending in front of the foremost point of the shoulders. Ribs well rounded. False ribs deep and well set back.
Underline - There should be a reasonable, but not exaggerated, tuck-up.
Back - muscular, powerful, and straight. When viewed from the rear, there should be a slight rounding over the rump.
Loins - wide and muscular.
Tail - set on moderately high and reaching to the hocks or a little below. Wide at the root, tapering to the end, hanging straight in repose, forming a slight curve, but never over the back when the dog is in motion.

Forequarters
Shoulders - moderately sloping, powerful and muscular, with no tendency to looseness. Degree of front angulation to match correct rear angulation.
Legs - straight, strong and set wide apart, heavy boned.
Elbows - parallel to body.
Pasterns - strong and bent only slightly.
Feet - large, round, and compact with well arched toes. Black nails.

Hindquarters
Hindquarters - broad, wide and muscular.
Second thighs - well developed, leading to a strong hock joint.
Stifle joint - is moderately angulated matching the front.

Rear legs - are wide apart and parallel when viewed from the rear. When the portion of the leg below the hock is correctly "set back" and stands perpendicular to the ground, a plumb line dropped from the rearmost point of the hindquarters will pass in front of the foot. This rules out straight hocks, and since stifle angulation varies with hock angulation, it also rules out insufficiently angulated stifles. Fault-Straight stifles.

Coat
Outer coat straight, coarse, and of moderately short length. Undercoat dense, short, and close lying. Coat should not be so long as to produce "fringe" on the belly, tail, or hind legs. Fault-Long or wavy coat.

Color
Fawn, apricot, or brindle. Brindle should have fawn or apricot as a background color which should be completely covered with very dark stripes. Muzzle, ears, and nose must be dark in color, the blacker the better, with similar color tone around the eye orbits and extending upward between them. A small patch of white on the chest is permitted. Faults-Excessive white on the chest or white on any other part of the body. Mask, ears, or nose lacking dark pigment.

Gait
The gait denotes power and strength. The rear legs should have drive, while the forelegs should track smoothly with good reach. In motion, the legs move straight forward; as the dog's speed increases from a walk to a trot, the feet move in toward the center line of the body to maintain balance.
Temperament
A combination of grandeur and good nature, courage and docility. Dignity, rather than gaiety, is the Mastiff's correct demeanor. Judges should not condone shyness or viciousness. Conversely, judges should also beware of putting a premium on showiness.


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Teresa

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Reply with quote  #3 

If he is solid black (absolutely NO brindling), he probably is not full blood, but honestly, it doesn't matter. If you love him and he's a great pet, that's wonderful and all that really matters!!! Papers don't make him any better..


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Reply with quote  #4 
A few  years back there was a mastiff breeder who cross bred mastiffs to black great danes in an attempt to create a breed called black mastiffs. Chances are you have one of those

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svkrazy516

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Reply with quote  #5 

Ok thanks for the answers.  I have been around mastiffs all my life and have never heard a tale about a black English mastiff that wasnt a mix.  Its just strange though since he is conformationally and personality matches an english mastiff perfectly - he is just black!  No brindleing what so ever. Maybe he is from that breeder way back and he gets it from a great dane, or maybe I was thinking a few generations back he had some Newfoundland mixed in?  Apparently his grandpa is a "longhaired" mastiff I dont know if that has anything to do with it.

 

h

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Reply with quote  #6 
Can you put up some pics?

In the end, it doesn't matter. He is your buddy.

I'd love to see some pics.

H

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Tracy

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Reply with quote  #7 
Curios who your breeder was??? There was a breeder who was trying to get a solid black mastiff, and cam expertly close, wonder of it was one of her dogs???

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Reply with quote  #8 
Papers are a provenance of sorts, as they tell you that the dog didn't just drop from the sky.

You could ask the woman that sold you the pet, if she would tell you the name of the breeder, or the parents of the pup and any other info on the pup's background. If papers were indeed registered, you could then contact AKC, or whatever club the pup was registered under, in order to validate, or receive a copy of the pedigree.

All black Mastiffs are very rare indeed and one must seriously question purity of heritage in such cases, but some very dark brindles have passed as black Mastiffs by less discriminating eyes.

It all depends on your resolve to gain this information.

In any case, good luck!


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"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
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svkrazy516

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Reply with quote  #9 

The name of the 'breeder' is Chrissy Kerchack of eastern Ohio, if I remember correctly near Youngstown?  She owns lazy O ranch.  Yes, it doesnt matter what he is really because he is a kind boy and I love him like a child (even when he is naughty which he has an aptitude for sometimes )

He was 2 when we bought him according to her - advertised as an intact male English Mastiff with AKC papers.  I just contacted AKC to see if there was anything they could tell me - she said she had "lost" his papers when we came to get him - since he was only $400 and intact I think she just didnt want to give a papered mastiff for such a low price.  So I will be curious to see what AKC says.  Now when we went there to get/buy him she said that the long haired mastiff that was really old was his grandpa, and I dont know if thats true or not but I thought that may have something to do with it.  Funny thing is, is that all her other mastiffs she had bred (except for a new litter) were the perfect mastiff coloring, conformation, and disposition.  The one new litter had a few black puppies - that she said he had sired. 

Here are some pics of "wrinkes."  ABSOLUTELY no brindleing and a very small patch of white on his chest, and again on two of the bottoms of his feet.  Acts like an English mastiff, and is built just like a quality male should be.  My uncle raised mastiffs and I have been around them my whole life, and I did alot of studying before we bought him to feel confident he would have a permanant home with us. 

svkrazy516

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Reply with quote  #10 

svkrazy516

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Reply with quote  #11 

 Sorry - it took me a little while to figure out how to post pictures!

svkrazy516

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Reply with quote  #12 

I cant figure out how to post pics!  Give I can surely email them if anyone is interested in seeing him.  I made the pics smaller and they still wont show up on the post?

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Reply with quote  #13 
I was speaking with an acquaintance a few weeks back who plans to get one of the solid black that resulted from crossing with black Danes.  She did say they are registered as Mastiffs.  I didn't want to quiz her on it but am very curious at what point in the variation of the breed in a pedigree a dog can be listed as purebred OR whether the different breed is actually registered as a Mastiff.  In other words, must there be deception with AKC at some point to accomplish that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EileenDurante
A few  years back there was a mastiff breeder who cross bred mastiffs to black great danes in an attempt to create a breed called black mastiffs. Chances are you have one of those

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mazierules

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Reply with quote  #14 
I looked at her myspace photo's, and here are a few.  She does also have Brazilian mastiff's, I do not know if they come in black, but anyway, the last pic is a fluffy, which could possibly be the dad? 

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: black.jpg, Views: 332, Size: 68.60 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: black_2.jpg, Views: 343, Size: 52.97 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: black_3.jpg, Views: 455, Size: 77.01 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: f4.jpg, Views: 306, Size: 64.00 KB 

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Reply with quote  #15 

10 of 33
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                        21 views                         Lightbox                
                                        rare silver fuzzy    chrissy

http://www.myspace.com/rwayfarms/photos/2735714#{%22ImageId%22%3A16663462}

Perhaps some of these photos might shed further light on this query!
                                               

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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
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svkrazy516

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Reply with quote  #16 

I wish that I could have figured out how to post the pictures. The third dog is wrinkles.  the first two I think are of the little he is supposed to have sired. AKC replied but gave me no answer on whether they would have accepted a black mastiff.  His grandpa, or what she said was his grandpa was a way heavier build than the dog shown above.   That would be really cool if someone else on here has a similar dog!

svkrazy516

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Reply with quote  #17 

Sorry to keep posting over and over but what am I doing wrong to get pics up - I upload them until they show up below the word upload, then I click out of the little box and it says that there is an attachment and the box is checked so I click post message and it WONT show up! Ha!  Oh well....

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Reply with quote  #18 

He is a beautiful boy.  I think the lady that told you she lost the papers never really had any to begin with.  That doesn't atter though, he has found a wonderful home with you and looks to be very loved.  There was a breeder who did breed towards exceptionally dark brindles but but I don't know if she ever got to totally black.  Welcome to the forum, your boy is beautiful!


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Kristie in Texas
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Reply with quote  #19 
I have little doubt that these blacks are Fila crosses, or Dane crosses, but definitely crosses.




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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #20 
I might add that the fluff in the photo is not a color of any known pure Mastiff fluff.

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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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dirtpoor

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Reply with quote  #21 

Orvchaka (sp?) possibly????


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Kristie in Texas
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And my new boy Elah!!!!!!
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Reply with quote  #22 

My bad, Ovcharka.

 


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Kristie in Texas
Proud mom of Daisy and Gunnar who live in Heaven with God and my daddy, Grace my silly clown who makes me laugh when I cry and every opportunity she thinks she can, Oliver who beat the odds and survived the impossible, Chigger, he's an a$$ but he's my little A$$....

And my new boy Elah!!!!!!
dirtpoor

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Reply with quote  #23 
Or not.
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Kristie in Texas
Proud mom of Daisy and Gunnar who live in Heaven with God and my daddy, Grace my silly clown who makes me laugh when I cry and every opportunity she thinks she can, Oliver who beat the odds and survived the impossible, Chigger, he's an a$$ but he's my little A$$....

And my new boy Elah!!!!!!
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Reply with quote  #24 
Ovcharka? If so, not in full coat.






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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
KB

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Reply with quote  #25 
The Black pups look like they could be a CBKC or CKC registered Fila cross having seen many in real life.  The Fila x Mastiff X Neo cross has been around since the 70's.

Maybe the reason the person called the dog a Mastiff is because they mistakenly thought a Brazilian Mastiff and Mastiff were the same breed.

The fluff is a tough one, it is not an Ovacharka, but maybe a Tibetan Mastiff  or Sar mixed with Mastiff.  Just a guess though.




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Reply with quote  #26 
IMO its unlikely they have a purebred Ovacharka. It looks like a mastiff/german shepherd cross to me.

I wouldnt worry about the papers...I think he is very handsome. Just fix him and love him. And if you are ever looking for another...do lots of research if a purebred is what you want :0


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Reply with quote  #27 
Your boy is beautiful! I'm so glad he found you and that he's so loved.
Unfortunately, this "breeder" is bad news. From what I've heard over the years, she has numerous breeds and mixes...terriers, aussies, shepherds, a couple of Mastiff types, etc. None are purebred and the "It is registered but I lost the papers" is a common thing with her.
The long haired dogs in those pics are probably not fluffies, they're mixed breeds that live in pens and are kept solely to produce more mixed breed pups, which she advertises as purebreds.

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AngiS

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Reply with quote  #28 
Your boy is gorgeous!
I looked at her MySpace pics, she's claiming that long haired dog to be a "rare silver fuzzy". Bad thing is, that color & description isn't listed as an approved color or hair length by AKC. If she was a reputable breeder trying to breed the better the breed & create healthy dogs that conform to the standard & not for the money...she wouldn't be breeding that "rare silver fuzzy". That's just my opinion though, I'm no expert.
And my pet peeve, to call something "rare" to make it seem more than ok is not a good thing.
So did the AKC say this litter was registered?
Another thing, she has some winter photos...all of her dogs are chained up outside & in a few pictures you can see pots and pans laying around I guess for water/food. That's really sad not just because Mastiffs are short haired dogs and are living outside in the SNOW, but they love being with their family, not seen just as money making objects.
There are dog houses everywhere! I usually don't give my opinion on this stuff, but my first reaction is, bad news...run Forest run!!!! Lol.


I'm really glad you 'saved' your boy though. He really is a looker! Enjoy him! He looks like a lovie boy!






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Reply with quote  #29 
Oh, just one more thing, then I'll get off my soap box! Lol.

The whole, "lost his papers" thing....I think she's banking on knowing that someone is ecstatic to be going to possibly buy a Mastiff for that price, like wow this is too good to be true, so she's banking on these puppies pulling at the heartstrings of the unsuspecting buyer, knowing once they see these super cute babies & such an unreal price...there's no way anyone would say no! Who says no to a super cute, purebred, cheap baby??!!??

I think it would just be so much easier to advertise them as companion puppies withOUT papers for $400, with an agreement to spay/neuter. Heck, at that price for such a beautiful dog, I'd probably do it!
Because realistically, you can't show or breed a dog with no papers...well, you can, just not through AKC! Lol
Papers don't really mean much if you plan to sterilize your dog anyways, other than showing their lineage, hence, being purebred. Otherwise, that's a fine price for a pet.

Ok, I'm jumping off my soap box! Lol. It just irritated me to see a breeder like that and especially to see she's trying to pull one over on people! That's just so dishonest.

Good luck and continue to post pictures of him. His dark hair IS truly beautiful and I bet he will be even more handsome as he continues to grow!

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svkrazy516

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Reply with quote  #30 

AngiS and DC Mastiff, This woman IS  a fraud to at least some degree, I just wasnt going to take the convo there initially.  Wrinkles had giardia, hookworm and whipworm, so after a hefty vet bill he finally was able to gain weight.  He weight 153 when we took him to the vet - and this is a large framed male mastiff!  He has since put on about 40 or 50 lbs, but he was ALMOST emaciated when we got him. 

I am way more familiar with horse papering and bloodlines than dogs, and DONT take this the wrong way but it never seemed important for one of my own dogs to be papered, since I dont show and I feel breeding would not be something I would do unless I could keep and snuggle all the puppies.  I guess this is because horses live 3X as long and cost thousands and thousands to buy and house.  So him not having papers is cool, it was more a curiosity thing. I am sure that the lost the papers thing has occured more than once.  When we went there she told us she had 28 dogs at the time, she had birds in the house, and horses in the back - who knows how many. Trouble is all the animals looked healthy so there wasnt any grounds for anything - shes just a hoarder "breeder". 

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Reply with quote  #31 
Again, DC Mastiffs, she had all sorts of breeds and Wrinkles had scars all over his face from her little Yorkie breeds and terriers jumping up and biting his face when he went to eat ( and now is a forever hoarder of any type of food even though we have no mobile children or other dogs).  So the white specs on avatar are scarring.  Kinda sad.  He's even got a notch missing out of his one ear.  You cant have that many animals as pets and not expect some to get forgotten, like our Wrinkles. 
AngiS

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Reply with quote  #32 
I'm glad it wasn't your intention to get his as a breeding male, but I would bet there are others that DO! Sad...
The hook & whip worms you 'typically' see in unsanitary conditions & the neglect would be the dog losing weight & her not taking him to the vet to see why he was so thin, plus, that also more than likely means she doesn't do heartworm prevention, because monthly heartworm prevention will also kill internal parasites. I would just make a call to the humane society in your area!
The more calls she gets on her, the more she'll be forced to have a reasonable number of animals, plus she will have to prove these animals have had proper vet care, which I'm sure they haven't.
The pics from the inside & outside of her home did look like a hoarding situation.
You can make anonymous calls to the humane society, and if you wanted, tell them the ones you seen "appeared" healthy, but you know, if he had worms, especially the kind he had, and he was thin, the other animals surely do too!
Your vet records are proof of the diagnosis of why he was skinny, plus they record their weight. If you wanted, you could tell them about it, not necessarily that you want anything done about what happened to you, but for the sake of the other animals that are still there & the next unsuspecting buyer!

Hoarding is a mental disorder that needs treatment! It's usually not done with the intention of neglect, that's one thing, but when your hoarding animals and not doing it to "save" the animals, its for the purpose of profit...that's another ballgame!
If you have 100 animals & they are all loved, part of the family, sanitary conditions and maintain vet care, then more power to you. But when the conditions are like this, its just not right & its not fair to the animals. They depend on us to care for them & be their advocate.

Please make an anonymous call & get these animals & their owner the help they all need! I hate thinking about kids, elderly & animals going without, especially since winter is fast approaching.
I'm sure the way I feel as many others do is the way hoarders feel, to "save" them. But realistically, I couldn't afford to properly care for that many animals & have the time needed to clean up after them. That's the difference between us & hoarders...we know we would only be doing more harm to the animals by not being able to care for them all even though they would be loved, but sometimes just love is not enough!
She may be a type of hoarder, & I don't get too awful upset (though it DOES upset me) when it comes to hoarders because I know its a mental disorder, just like schizophrenia, but whatever type she is...REALLY ticks me off because she's not doing it to "save" the animals, she's using them to profit!
There are too many animals in shelters without a loving family, just waiting on death row & she's contributing to that population.
Isn't it so sad to go in a shelter & not just see those sad animals that lay there & look pitiful, but the ones that jump up & bark & beg for attention! Then there are the lost cause animals...they need major intervention just to be suitable for a family because of the abuse or neglect they have had. It's just heartbreaking!



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Angi~


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svkrazy516

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Reply with quote  #33 

We did call, once we found that that he was skinny because of worms, especially since there was ONE other puppy that was really skinny.  They say they need proof.  I called the group that does all of Ohio, because to my knowledge unless you're dealing with a large city, humane societies have to cover larger areas, and I didnt know what county.... blablalbla anyways they wanted pics and I didnt know she had a myspace at the time. 

If we did ever do ONE litter out of him, I would be sure to make it clear that they are mutts.  I like mutts always had them way less chance of health problems, but you dont get the predictable personality though.  We probably wont ever breed him though.

 

P.S. on the heartworms, since these are such large dogs you can give them ivermectin from anywhere.  Ivermectin is NOT like moxidectin where you can seriously overdose and kill.  panacure is similar.  These wormers are made for all animals, so I give Wrinkles what I give my horses.  I wouldnt do this for a 10 lb dog, but 50lbs and up it is easily dosable.  We took him to the vet initially so that if he got an impaction from being so wormy and he had to go back in a hurry they would already know him and know whats going on and be able to do what they needed.  There arent many vets thatll tell  you that you can worm your large dog for three dollars, (and that three dollar tube will last for 1200 lbs of dog)  you just must be smart and research which horse/cattle ones you CANNOT use such as moxidectin(Quest).  Just throwing it out there!

kiokeemastiffs1

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Reply with quote  #34 

Please don't breed him just to make dogs--"mutts" .  That just contributes another generation to the problem.


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AngiS

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Reply with quote  #35 
I agree with Catie and as I stated in my last comment, there are already hundreds of thousands of dogs who are already in shelters waiting on a home. Even if you just had a few mixed breeds from "one" litter, thats a few homes taken from the ones already without a loving family to love and care for them.
Why create more mixed breeds when there are already so many HOMELESS ones to choose from??? It does just add to the problem and it seems as though that woman is doing a fine job of keeping it going!!! Don't follow in her footsteps please!!!

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collie

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Reply with quote  #36 
Black is an ancient colour of the Mastiff, but not since the mid-nineteenth century. I have seen one registered Mastiff that was black but registered as a brindle, and in my opinion was a crossbred. The old "I lost the papers" trick is sadly a common ruse. I have seen a few Mastiffs with heavy shading like the fluffy. including a fluffier fluffy than that one.
If you use him to produce a litter, remember two things, (1) there are a zillion Mastiff crosses out there, and (2) a litter from him might not have any of his good qualities, No responsible Mastiff breeder would use up one of his or her bitches heats on a crossbred litter, and they would be in trouble if the AKC found out they did!

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Janine

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Reply with quote  #37 
I have to be honest here, please dont use him.  You sound like a nice responsible person, but if someone with a large bitch does use him to put a litter on the ground they may sell to people not responsible at all.  If one of his pups does bite a person, or attacks another dog it will be the MASTIFF in general who is blamed. 
There are thousands of dogs out there who are the result of "just let her have one litter", or "I love my dog so much I want one of his pups".  Most of them end up in shelters or stuck in a yard going stir crazy.
One of my mastiffs (on the limited register) was a lovely dog, I would have loved to have passed his temperament on along with other qualities he had, BUT he had a huge fault, it was cosmetic but he was pied, I neutered him quite young.
Just go to a shelter and look in the eyes of the dogs on death row, so many of them, most are the result of an unnecessary breeding.
Enjoy him for who he is and the companion he is.
Just my opinion.
Janine.


svkrazy516

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Reply with quote  #38 

I guess when I said we would 'probably not breed him' I seemed vague; I didnt mean I would 'BREED' him as in to make $$ off of, more than just my relatives that have had papered mastiffs miss their babies.  I appreciate the insight on 'mutt' breeding since it is a problem and it is very sad thats how we have to deal with the animals that dont find homes. We looked at two pounds before we found Wrinkles; they were mostly older and set in their ways and were too hyper to behave around two horses and two goats without showing some aggression.  Just another question about the breed (even though it seems that Wrinkles isnt full breed - perhaps has some Fila in him for the black)  Do English Mastiffs usually have double serated teeth like a bear?  Wrinkle's front teeth are double serated and I have never seen that before in dog!

 

P.S. the AKC emailed me back and told me that black is accepted for English mastiffs; however they must be registered as "brindle" as stated by 'Collie'.

 

DC_Mastiffs

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Reply with quote  #39 

There are no disqualifying faults in Mastiffs. If you had a purple one and sent in your money, AKC would register it if the parents were both AKC registered (whether they're legit or not is a different story.) Since you don't have papers for this boy, they would register him through their alternative program. The AKC has a program now where they will "register" mutts through some sort of companion program. It's a limited registration, but it's there. Being AKC registered has nothing to do with the quality of the dog. It doesn't mean the dog has a good pedigree or is a good representative of the breed, it simply means the parents of the dog also had been registered with the AKC as Mastiffs.

  I'd recommend you neuter your boy and enjoy him as the wonderful pet he is. If your friends and family are looking for a Mastiff or Mastiff mix, have them go to petfinder.com and look at all the hundreds available in your area already. There's really no need to create more.

Smooches to your boy...he's adorable


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Reply with quote  #40 
Just wanted to say....Thank you. Its refreshing to see someone ask questions and TAKE the advice with open mind. All too often people come on the these forums and ask questions and advice and when its not what they want to hear they get defensive and go and do the opposite of what people are trying to tell them.  He is very handsome and you are right in concluding its not a good idea to breed him. BUT if thats something you want to do int he future with another mastiff. PLEASE ask questions here. We can steer you to a GOOD breeder and you will get lots of information here about that process. I own a stud and this site along with my breeder has been very helpful to me in that process.Wealth of knowledge here!!
Clearly IMO you would be an owner breeders would like to have. Open minded, ready to learn and level headed and most important care about your animals!!!



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SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #41 
               

Quote:
There are no disqualifying faults in Mastiffs


Yet if you entered a Mastiff that looked like a Chihuahua, would the judge prevent the dog from competing? If he did, would it be wrong? Can a Mastiff be excused because of form?


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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