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Ubi fons, ibi purior aqua

Quite correct. This 'red colour' matter was one of the 'hot' themes throughout the canine magazines of the early 1930ties , Mr EG Oliver being of the leading men . As you know , he was rather a 'purity' knight and tried eagerly to trace sources in order to proof his claims re purity within his own Hellingly strain partly built upon the Cleveland strain . So one needs to place his 'inquiries' within this particular context .

The fact Herbert Cook himself , son of George who purchased Marton Lady , should have told him the 'story' , procured Mr EG Oliver some extra argumentation to 'clean' his noble Hellingly kennels from any insult re impurity .

A decent number of fanciers didn't believe his claim , so there was definitely , said euphemistically , quite some headwind , also because a/o Mr EG Oliver made a 'strong case' of Penkhull Lady , a brood linked to Bullmastiff blood , whom was running through the veins of Hellingly challengers , a/o the strains of Mrs Evans of Jersey island , Havengore & of Miss Bell , all members of the OEMC , while Mr EG Oliver has distantiated him from the old club and decided to found a 'counter' Mastiff gathering .

An eye for an eye !

Re Ajax/Joe , you're entitled to have your own opinion , I only try to bring elements into light , food for thought , nothing more and indeed I do respect your angle of view on the matter .


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Ubi fons, ibi purior aqua

Thanks for bringing it into attention . I’m having a bronze lookalike , length 9 i. breadth 4 i. (vide pic) , signed by the French artist Charles Valton and purchased in the early eigthies .

Maybe of some interest , there is or was a quite similar decorum in stone (vide pic) closeby the statue of Friedrich Wihelm II (1744-1797) , situated into the castle garden of Babelsberg near Potsdam , artist unknown .

Another one , a gilt-bronze or ormolu (vide pic) , is claimed to represent the regency art , bearing a studded collar and placed upon an original belgo nero marble , and is the favourite within my collection.

Karen ,

One of WK Taunton’ articles , published in the early XXth century , mentions - ‘The colour is sometimes deceptive and what appears to a novice as a brindle puppy turns out to be a very dark fawn which gradually gets lighter as the puppy grows . It has occurred that puppies bred from dark rich brindles have been whelped of a blue or slate colour . In course of time , the stripes of the brindle appear , but puppies of this colour , which are very rare , generally retain a blue mask and have light eyes .

Many such puppies have been destroyed ; but it this practice is a mistake ; for although it is not a colour to be desired , some of our best Mastiffs have been bred through dogs or bitches of this shade . As an instance, I may mention my own dog , Constable .

His grandam , Columbine , was a blue brindle . I parted with her as a puppy to a well-known breeder who afterwards offered her back to me on account of her colour . Knowing how she was bred , I readily accepted the offer . She was by Cardinal , out of Cleopatra by Cardinal out of Gwendolen by Green’ Monarch . Putting her to her sire , I obtained Empress of Tring , a capital brindle of good size .

Just at this time I wanted a cross-out and Dr Turner offered to let me have , at quite a nominal price , Hotspur , a son of Crown Prince and a dog for which he had refused 100 pounds as a puppy ( note – actually valued at ± x 70 ) . Mating Empress of Tring with him I got many good Mastiffs , one of the best being Constable, who made his debut at the Barn Elms’ Kennel Club show in 1887 , where he caused a sensation among Mastiff breeders .

Well , slate color stands for a dark bluish gray pattern . A canine example of a similar color , IMO , can be found within the Great Dane (blue) and the Neapolitan . There are sources within our breed history which mention the Boarhound , predecessor of the Great Dane , as having been played part within the early crosses of Mastiff breeding , so maybe , IMO , there’s some colored link in that very direction .

The definition of cool granite-grey is also used to describe color patterns of antique Oriental carpets , usually balanced by the warmth of camel , ivory , and terracotta outlinings .




The strongest Victorian brood line [vide specific scheme within Edwin Nichols’ article , part II] started off with the Duke of Devonshire’ Bendigo’ daughter Juno followed by Ansdell Leo’ Duchess ~ Sir Domville’ Oscar’ Venus [ch Hales Lion’ dam] ~ Nichols’ Quaker’ Brenda I ~ Field’ ch King’ Brenda ~ Lindoe’ Druid’ Druidess ~ Nichols’ Big Ben’ champion Lottie ~ Hanbury’ Prince’ Ida ~ Parkinson’ ch Colonel’ Negress ~ Hanbury’ ch Rajah’ Lady Rowena ~ ending with Woolmore’ ch Crown Prince’ Lady Isabel , dam to Dr JS Turner’ champion Beaufort , owned by WK Taunton . Ch Lady Isabel had 5 ch sisters/brother , Elaine, Rosalind , Lady Gladys , Orlando & Hotspur . The above strain presented also several interesting branches through Sir Domville’ Oscar’ Venus’ daughters Slut [ch Hodge’ Empress’ dam] & Hilda [ch Turk’ dam & Charles Mason’ ch Salisbury’ great-grandam ] .

The splendid Hanbury brood line passed also through an Ansdell’ Leo’ daughter , namely Empress ~ George’ Tiger’ ch Duchess [1st breed champion] ~ Lukey’ Governor’ Phoebe ~ ending with Pemberton’ Wolf’ Phillis who produced champions Queen , Rajah & Taurus .

Also worthful to mention is the input through the ‘Old Flora’ line , dam to champion The Countess , who was on her turn dam to the stud pillar ch The Emperor , belonging to the all times most influential stud line , namely ch Crown Prince ~ ch Orlando ~ Orlando II ~ Captain Piddocke’ ch Ogilvie .

Champion Turk’ daughter Nell , another interesting line up , through ~ Lukey’ Baron’ Grace [ch Nero’dam , f3 dam to ch Leo VII , f4 dam to ch Coombe Baroness] ~ ch Gwendolen ~ Stella [ch Ogilvie’ grandam & f4 dam to ch Constable] & Phoebe [ch Griselda’ dam & ch Carshalton Prince’ grandam] ; champion Turk’ Venus was grandam to Merlin [ch Crown Prince’ dam & f6 dam in line up to ch Elgiva] .

The ‘Warwick’ brood line ran along Baron’ Lena ~ ch Crown Prince’ ch Toozie ~ ch Jubilee Beauty [dam to ch Brampton Beauty , Tom Bowling’ sis , ch Ha Ha’ & ch Marcella’ grandam] , Lady Cobrey [ch Ilford County Member’ dam & Robert Leadbetter’ ch Marksman’ grandam ] & Lady Dudley [ch Plutarch’ dam & ch Holland Black Boy’ grandam] .

Coming to the after-Victorian era , the Hereward’ Sybil line is especially succesful through Lt-Col Zaccheus Walker’ strain of the Fox Hollies Hall which died out after he stopped breeding around World War I . Sybil’ grandaughter ch Ilford Chancellor’ Chocolate Girl became not only grandam to ch Peter Piper & and his unexcelled brother Leyton Jim but also to Joan , on her turn grandam to ch Marchioness & Paula [ch Countess Invicta’ dam , ch Lord Manor’ grandam & ch’s Charming Duchess , Britain’ Queen’ & Britain’ Belle’ great-grandam] .

The already scrutinized ‘Helen unr.’ brood line became somewhat ‘dormant until 14 generations further on f 14 Sparry Faithful Gillard’ Sparry Cleo became dam to Copenore Jason , the most influential stud after ch Crown Prince’ times . The line up is as follows ~ Helen ~ Stapleford Agrippa’ Penkhull Lady ~ ch King Baldur’ . Shirebrook Lady ~ Ashenhurst Duke’ Rookery Duchess ~ ch King Baldur’ Lady Clare ~ Comet Menai’ Wantley Fair Freya ~ f6 Hellingly Robert’ Cleveland Joy’ [other Helen’ f6 progeny were the three Tiddicar champions General, Diana & [Hellingly] Prudence] ~ Cleveland Comedian’ Deleval Joanne ~ Deleval Hereward’ Deleval Boadicea ~ ch Uther Penarvon’ Hortia ~ Brunwins Robin’ Coldblow Sally ~ Templecoombe Taurus’ Frithend Nydia ~ Valiant Diadem’ Baroness ~ Heatherbelle Sterling Silver’ Melita Salome ~ Sparry Faithful Gillard’ Sparry Cleo.

Interesting note is that Robert Leadbetter’ grand champion Hazlemere Ronald’ brood line stopped with his grandam Lady Argyll unr. while in 1887 the ‘grocer in spirits’ William Shearer Clark of Wishaw bred a ‘Duke Argyle’ sired by Edinburgh Duke out of Victoria Regina , also bred by WS Clark [out of ch Crown Prince’ sis Queen Liberty sired by ch Crown Prince’ nephew ch Prince of Wales].

This scheme clearly shows that A R Fish’ Penwortham Fanny bred in August 1915 by G D Penny was behind first-class show winners ; she was sired by Vereton Sir Titus [Brookes’ ch Lidgett Viscount x ch Brompton Duchess] , a stud without show successes due to the break out of World War I .

Penwortham Fanny , a challenge winner at Manchester Manchester June 1916 , only ten months old & a reserve certificate under the renowned Mastiff breeder AW Lucas , beaten by ch Miss Bull , was according to some old ‘Our dogs – Mems’ report been able to easy get her champion title if war wasn’t broken out !

Between the remaining brood lines was a/o the ‘Floss unr.’ line started off along her daughter George Cook’ Marton Peggy by Marton Fido , great- grandam to champions Weland , Young Mary Bull & The Scarlet Pimpernel & f4 dam to ch King Baldur.

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Thanks for your contribution . In connection some with my former post some ‘wider’ explanation .

Genetics in the XIXth century .

During the Victorian period , it was widely believed that ‘biology is destiny’ and virtual all characteristics are inherited . How heredity actually works was a considerable mystery . Most characteristics seemed to be average of those of their parents , so-called ‘blended’ and perhaps ‘regressed towards the mean’ of the population as a whole . This seemed to imply that unless there were careful restrictions on choices of mates , the population would eventually become more and more average in his characteristics as par example size & proportions .

Domestic animals and pedigree dogs were bred based on selective breeding practices regarding particular aims, but their breeders didn’t possess the knowledge of the Mendelian basic laws of heredity .

It was only at the end of the era that a/o Dr Sidney Turner became aware of their possibilities concerning pedigree dog breeding . PMC Toepoel , The Netherlands’ most prominent cynologue, mentioned Dr Turner freely in his testamentary book ‘Our dogs ‘ in order to quote the theory of Mendel which states that dominant & recessive genes determine the outlook of a specimen .

When both are present , the dominant gene fixes the characteristic on its own while the recessive gene , although present , remains invisible . By absence of the dominant gene, the famous reliability of the recessive genes gives pure bred features in the Mastiff breeding process , as par example two fawn parents can only produce fawn progeny .

Looking at ‘Mother Nature’ , species as a/o the wolf are the result of long-termed inbreeding because it are the strongest males who mate the majority of bitches within the herd . Inbreeding brings about, sooner or later , the appearance of the recessive genes which become fixed during the course of the following generations . In that view it is obvious to understand that recessive genes adjoin closely to ‘Nature’ ; wild coloured , golden to yellow eyed , long haired , hardish coated , long legged and long tailed , features belonging to a/o canis lupus , weighing up to 170 lb.

The Mastiff breed stands far away ‘Nature’ , thus the breeding is strongly dependent of the presence of a great number of dominant genes , as par example the ‘short haired’ & ‘black mask’ genes , which are not ‘true’ in passing on to progeny . Deducing from the above mentioned genetic procedures , one could state that it becomes more difficult to breed as ‘pure bred’, those breeds which are more remote from the natural ‘wolf ’ form .

In a great number of cases , a fault becomes eventually corrected by mating with a specimen which is faultless in that respect due to the basis law of Mendel which states that hereditary factors do not combine but are passed intact , each member of the parental generation transmits only half of its hereditary factors to each offspring with certain factors ‘dominant’ over others ; different offspring of the same parents receive different sets of hereditary factors .

Gregor Mendel’ work was impeccable , as far as it went , but some inheritance patterns did not match the expectations proposed by Mendel’s principles as a/o single gene variations whereby dominant genes lack dominance , fail to completely mask the recessive allele or both alleles are equally expressed in the heterozygote specimens .

When there is no real dominant allele , the heterozygote will have a phenotype , different from either homozygous form .

This is sometimes referred to as an intermediate phenotype . In this case one could correct a fault by crossing with a specimen showing the opposite fault in order to beget the mentioned intermediate form . Inbreeding is an accelerated way of making a breed ‘pure bred’ ; degeneration related to inbreeding is nothing else than undesired recessive genes , at first invisible , becoming fixed as ‘pure bred’, so as par example light eyed specimens . This usually appears when one overestimates the importance of some breed features and neglects the rest of characteristics .

Regarding eye colour , there exists a ‘yellow overlay gene’ which , when combined with the basic pigment gene , alters light brown to hazel , the tone aimed at by the original OEMC breed standard of 1883 , drawn up by Reverend WJ Mellor , Walter K Taunton & Dr J Sidney Turner .

It is of extremely interest to combine within a further mateing the undesired recessive gene with the respective dominant gene . A practical example of another undesired recessive gene was the ‘Dudley’ front of Crown Prince (liver coloured markings) , but when matched with an appropriate bitch he got also correctly marked offspring as a/o champion Orlando , bred by Dr J. Sidney Turner of Upper Norwood , London .

Original ‘Wolf’ and ‘Mastiff’ types were already very distinct in the early ages of civilisation . In this matter there’s a passage of Malcolm B. Wynn’ The History of the Mastiff which detailed a Babylonian bas-relief of 2200 B.C. , a very informative piece of ancient Middle East sculpture .

‘Assyrian dogs showing the ‘ hunting tribe ‘ of the Molossian race from the walls of Assurbanibal ’ palace of Nineveh , 668-662 B.C. , within the land of Tigris & Euphrates ( 220 miles north of Baghdad presently in Iraq) , being now in the property of the British Museum .

The Babylonian bas-relief shows probably the ‘ fighting tribe ‘ of the Molossian race but also standard guard for the houses of the reigning families & court officials ~ founf in the land of Tigris & Euphrates , 60 miles south of Baghdad 2200 B.C. , British Museum .

Sir Henry Rawlinson , the one who discovered this Babylonian bas-relief , succeeded between 1835 and 1839 in copying most of the great Behistun inscription which was set up by Darius the Great of Persia about 550 B.C. . Later on Sir Rawlinson became world-wide known for his decipherment of this ancient cuneiform containing the same three scripts which also appeared on several other Persian artefacts .

Sir Henry Rawlinson [Chadlington , Oxfordshire 1810-1895] was an Orientalist and after his service with the army of the East India Co. , he became consul general at Baghdad . Between 1849 and 1851 , he had given his collection of antiquities to the British Museum . He wrote a/o ‘ The Five Great Monarchies of the Ancient Eastern World ‘ , London 1879 and together with several Assyriologists he examined the excaved ruins at the ancient religious centre , Birs Nimrud [Borsippa] or ‘the second Babylon’, 12 miles south of Babylon and nearby the Euphrates River .

Sir Rawlinson found that the tower consisted of seven stages of brick-work , each stage of a different colour , which shows that the temple was devoted to the seven planets . It is believed by Orientalists to be the site of the Tower of Babel . Even with its three higher stages or floors in ruins , it still rises 154 feet above the level of the plain . This planet-tower was dedicated to Nebo , god of Wisdom , and wherein also Baäl , the god of sun , was worshipped by a/o astrologers .

The Tower of Babel drawn by O. Schultz from the model constructed by Sir Henry Rawlinson . According to the Old Testament the building was erected on the plain of Shinar in Babylonia by descendants of Noah .



Already in those times dogs have been associated with the powerful . The everyday life of rural Assyria was disrupted by lions killing livestock and farmers alike , gazelles and wild asses eating crops and trampling fields .

The king’s performance as first huntsman symbolised both his bravery and his care for his subjects’ welfare . Not only did he hunt , he had to be seen to do so . Whether recorded in bas-relief or staged in huge arenas, Assurbanibal’s hunts were lessons for the Assyrians in the king’s power and magnificence .

These events required large numbers of Mastiff-like dogs . For royal families , especially in times of turmoil and intrigue , dogs have always been valuable for their symbolic role as ideal subjects , always obedient and loyal , as well as for their guarding ability and companionship. Their devoted behaviour towards their masters have been a pointed reminder to courtiers.

Concerning the heredity of temperament , much is assumed but less is proved . Even in case of nervousness is not caused by inheritance , it remains of utmost importance to breed from a correctly tempered bitch because her behaviour during the gestation and first weeks after the whelping can induce similar emotional habits regarding her progeny ; in this respect it seems that eventual shyness of a ‘foreign’ sire cannot harm in that same order .

If Sir Henry Rawlinson was related to Mrs Rawlinson of Ulverston ’ Graythwaite Old Hall , the breeder of Stanley and champion The Emperor , Crown Prince’ probably sire , is unknown .

Around 1200 BC , the Phoenicians advanced from Cyprus , toward the west and established colonies in Sicily , Spain , France and England . In a fascinating and sharp-witted treatise , Tschudy proposed the theory that the descendants of the old Assyrian dogs existed along the old commercial roads of the Phoenicians . Tschudy suggested that the Assyrian dogs , brought to Europe by the Phoenicians , were the ancestors of a/o the Mastiff in England .

Many known Greek & Roman illustrations show the Molossian as a large , well muscled dog with erect ears, a lean head and a ‘ mane ’ . The characteristic curled tail and darker color of the Assyrian dogs is never pictured or described by either the Greeks or the Romans . An example is the ‘Dog of Alcibiades’ , British Museum , displaying ‘lion-like manes’ round his neck , an artistic freedom or did there exist such antique kind of dogs as also the Babylonian bas-relief shows similar pattern of manes in the same area . And even when you look at Sir Edwin Landseer' painting of an Alpine Mastiff , one can discover 'some supplementary roughness' around neck & shoulders .




Re the ‘curtain matter’ , IMO, when ‘not overdone’ by a singular cheek fold , it somewhat enhances the idea of squareness which of course in first instance has to come from correct skull outlinings and quality of temporal & masseter muscle tone ; it’s quite true the OEMC standard only mentions about the wrinkling on the forehead , without any description of folding on cheeks .

But , IMO , it’s quite clear that the continuation of the lowest wrinkle (upon the eyebrow) down under to a rather ‘thick’ singular cheek fold enhances the finishing touch of a beau tout-emsemble . IMO , on the one side ‘wrinkle upon the forehead’ & on the other side , a limited amount of throatiness cannot be well balanced by a complete ‘dry’ cheek , but again said - in proportio to the common idea re forehead , ‘wrinkled when attention is excited’ , thereby knowing that a particular situation of excitement doesn’t change much the folding on the cheeks , and also taking into consideration that the mouth remains closed for reason of comparison .

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No direct reference found re the possible inspiration of Dr Henry Walsh (Stonehenge) within the Mastiff standards he laid down , but maybe MB Wynn , educated by this father , a Master of Arts and scholar at the renowned Wadham College , Oxford , was more ‘penetrated’ by the lyrical world of antique sculpture , pottery , carving , painting & engraving when putting up his points of the Mastiff , in order to ‘secure’ an account re the solvability concerning the content of his ‘ideal description’ .

The 1859 – 1883 era isn’t only the period of progressively refined or tuned concept re points of standards , but also the cradle time of pedigreed dogs , in particular the Mastiff , even there exists pedigrees ( a/o Ormonde’ ) going back to Robinson’ Bold of Bold Hall & his mateing partner Thompson’ Rose , owned by the father of MB Wynn’ acquaintance the partner of THV Lukey in breeding Mastiffs , James Wigglesworth Thompson ; this parentage gave the brindle progenitor Holdsworth’ Lion , born 1820 . But as everyone knows , pedigrees became only established from 1874 when the first Stud Books were published , based upon short ancestral description re each winner at one of the many yearly dog shows since 1859 .

The ‘palpable’ cradle of the main ‘ Mastiff stud line ‘ was at London’ Leadenhall Market , established in the 14th century around a manor house with a lead roof . It became one of the best places in London to buy meat , game , poultry & fish . In 1666 it was destroyed in the Great Fire ; over the next years new buildings were erected on the old site . In Victorian times, this market was very busy, and had different days of the week for meat , fish , leather & hides .

A celebrated character in Leadenhall during the 18th century was ' Old Tom ', a gander which managed to escape execution even though it is recorded that 34,000 geese were slaughtered there in two days . He became a great favourite in the market and was fed at the local inns . After his death in 1835 at the age of 38 , he lay in state in the market and was buried there .’

It was at Leadenhall market Bill George bought Eve from a dealer ; later on Eve came into the possession of Colonel Garnier who mated her to f1 Adam [of Lyme Hall] , a dog standing 30 ½ inches at the shoulder , good length of body , good muscular shoulders & loins but slightly deficient in depth of body & breadth of forehead , also having a peculiar forward lay of his small ears , maybe as a result of a remote dash of Boarhound …

Their son , F2 Col. Garnier’ Lion , was described by MB Wynn as ~ ‘ A longish headed and somewhat leggy animal , with little pretention to true Mastiff character , showing according to his breeders’ own admission, unmistakeable signs of the boarhound .’ MB Wynn goes on writing ~ ‘ Mr Lukey , in possession of this grand animal [Countess] , failed to mate her judiciously , being carried away with the vulgar error for great size ; he crossed her with Lion [F2] , a dog bred in America ; the infusion of this mongrel blood nearly ruined Mr Lukey’ dogs …’ [ F3 Governor’ parents ! ] .




A representant of the Mastiff breed around 1860 as seen through the artist’ eye of (most probably) Harrison Weir (1824-1906) who also has drawn the Mastiff engravings within Reverend J.G. Wood’ The Illustrated Natural History , first edited in the early 1860s .

This chromolithograph plate depicting an array of breeds is part of Henry J. Johnson' Natural History , Comprehensive, Scientific , & Popular , Illustrating and Describing the Animal Kingdom based upon the writings of the eminent naturalists Audubon , Wallace , Brehm , Wood and others , edited by Hugh Craigh , M.A. Trinity College Cambridge . Illustrated with 64 full page chromolithographs executed in eight colors & tints , measuring 7” x 9 ½” , contributions by Samuel Goodrich , New York , 1874 .

F3 Lukey’ Governor , according to MB Wynn , ~ ‘appears to have taken after the boarhound type in his progenitor Adam ; Lukey himself admitted the dog’ deficiency of girth of chest and wretched long muzzle ; in fact Governor , grand large dog as he was , nevertheless was unquestionably to long in head and pointed in muzzle , he inherited plainly from his sire the wedge shaped head of the boarhound, Great Dane & Alpine sheepdog type.’Lukey’ Governor was superseded by his son F4 Hanbury’ Prince [out of Hanbury’ champion Duchess] , the one especially renowned for his bone .

Reverend J Rowe , old friend of the Belgian Reverend HKE Van Doorne , mated F4 Hanbury’ Prince to his Nell , full sis to champion King , resulting in Bellona , owned by Miss Hales , Ursa , owned by Miss Aglionby and finally in F5 Griffin .

Griffin F5 , was chosen by Edgar Hanbury [MB Wynn quoted him as ~ ‘ wresting the premier position from him [Mr Lukey] , a position that clever breeder has honestly held, and well merited , off and on ever since .’] to mate his Phillis [ Pemberton’ Wolf ex F4 Hanbury’ Prince’ sis Phoebe] ; the result was ch Rajah F6 the grand headed champion , looked at as the type of the future for people to breed up to .



WH Balleston of Palewell villa , East Sheen ~ London , bred F7, the internationally shown champion The Shah , sired by F6 ch Rajah out of his Ino [Lukey’ champion Beauty’ brother Baron x ch King’ daughter Nell , also grandsired by Lukey’ Harold] .

Mrs Rawlinson’ champion Countess [ch Turk’ son Sultan x Old Flora] was crossed with F7 ch The Shah which gave F8 ch The Emperor , owned by Joseph Evans of London .

Henry Woolmore [most probably] used F8 ch The Emperor to his Merlin , a F7 ch The Shah’ daughter , also going back [along Rupert] to Miss Aglionby’ great bitch champion Lottie [Big Ben x Druid’ daughter Druidess] , her great-grandam ; between their progeny a/o F9 ch Crown Prince .

Vide engraving of ch The Emperor issued by a German canine book which mentions that , according to Thomas Bewick [1753-1828] , the ‘modern’ Mastiff was the result of crosses between the Bulldog , the Great Dane and the ‘Ban-dog’.

Dr John Sidney Turner owned a F6 ch Rajah’ daughter , The Lady Rowena , also going back [along Rupert’ sis Ida] to Miss Aglionby’ ch Lottie ! Four litters out of The Lady Rowena were sired by F9 ch Crown Prince , one of the pups being F9 ch Orlando , so famous for his head properties .

Ch Lottie belonged to the most successful brood line ; her sire Big Ben sired also WK Taunton’ ch Cardinal and grandsired MH Beaufoy’ ch Beau [sired by ch Wolsey’ brother Prince] & Dr JS Turner’ Cedric The Saxon [bred out of ch Wolsey’ brother Prince’ Lady] while Lottie’ dam Druidess was halfsis to Hanbury’ brindle champion Queen , ch Wolsey’ dam . One can imagine the Edgar Hanbury’ ch Rajah ex ch Queen combination could have been the centre point of the then breeding for show purpose !

The Belgian Reverend HKE Van Doorne , owner of F10 ch Orlando used him for an inbreeding to ch Orlando’ daughter Hertha , also grandaughter to Dr Turner’ Cedric The Saxon ; their son F11 Orlando II was described as ~ ‘heavy bone , immense chest , large skull , weak hind quarters , moving badly .’

Captain Leo Piddocke preferred F11 Orlando II for mateing his ch Montgomery’ daughter Zillah III , also ch Cardinal’ grandaughter ; their son F12 ch Oglivie became the start off of a exceptional line up of brindle champions , a colour very much in favour at the turn of the century . Two years later the Captain bred a litter out of his ch. Victor Hugo’ champion daughter Jubilee Beauty using F12 ch Ogilvie , producing a most unusual quality litter containing a/o champion Brampton Beauty , Stella III [ch Ha Ha’ dam] , Iron Duke [ch Elgiva’ grandsire] & F13 Tom Bowling . Henry Woolmore bought the latter , F13 Tom Bowling , and bred from him a/o the quadruple Crufts winner ch Peter Piper & his unique brother Leyton Jim , out of his Selina [grandaughter to champions Beaufort & Ilford Chancellor] .

Unfortunately this stud line came to an end , so it was through another F13 Tom Bowling’ son the line continued , namely F14 Mellnotte , bred by Arthur W Lucas our of his Di Vernon [ch Beaufort’ Sir Stafford ex Rev Van Doorne’ ch Jack Thyr or Wodan’ daughter Erna] .

F14 Mellnotte sired a/o Robert Leadbetter’ Prince Sonderburg, bred by J Laquhee out of unr. Nell , who got a challenge award at Scottish Kennel Club Show under Fred Gresham & at Crufts under N Walker Hall . Nevertheless the most successful line up got through F14 Mellnotte’ grandson , the brindle champion Felix , bred by George Cook of Middlesbrough .

Robert Leadbetter’ Prince Sonderburg shows a nice bevelled off look but sins in being not cut square off in muzzle , i.o.w. forming a right angle with the upper line of the face ; in order to obtain also ‘ length of muzzle to whole head and face as 1 to 3’ , the muzzle has [approx.] to follow the dotted angle without such a protuding underjaw . His daughter Widmere Winnie got a challenge award at Birkenhead 1908 under Lt. Col. Zaccheus Walker !


Quote – ‘ I personally think the breed looks brilliant in the old and ruddy working dog condition . ‘


Indeed , very true connotation . Age gives the individual Mastiff ‘charisma’ , an air of wisdom , even of comtemplation enhanced by the greying of his black markings and slowering way of general behavior . He duly seems to relativise daily happenings in perspection of his own environment . One of the Mastiff people who artistically observed the works of aging is Mr Rosingh , the author of a visualised specialist breed book ‘Mastiff Images’ , displaying his Lazybones in quite natural poses and environments opposed to those artificial show / advert photographs or cabinet portraits . Definitely recommended for lovers of ‘essential purity’ without any superfluous lumber , Mastiif although oozing dictinction all over , even in snap shooting results .

A nicely written testimony about the aging Mastiff is to be found in Dr John Brown’ Rab and his Friends ' ed. 1858 , the first volume in the series 'Little Prose Masterpieces' issued by Foulis .

Dr John Brown [ Biggar 1810-1882 ] was an Edinburgh' physician and a man of letters who possessed an unique insight into dog-nature . The essay ' Rab and his friends ' treats of the story of an old Mastiff , called Rab , and the way he touches the lives of those around him . ~ An excerpt ~

' There , under the single arch of the South bridge is a huge Mastiff , sauntering down the middle of the causeway , as if with his hands in his pockets ; he is old , grey , brindled and as big as a little Highland bull , and has the Shakespearian dewlaps shaking as he goes .The Chicken [a bull terrier] makes straight at him , and fastens on his throat . To our astonishment , the great creature does nothing but stand still , hold himself up , and roar – yes , roar ; a long , serious , remonstrative roar . How is this ? Bob and I are up to them .

He is muzzled ! The bailies had proclaimed a general muzzling , and his master had encompassed his huge jaws in a leathered apparatus . ‘A knife ! ‘cried Bob ; and a cobbler gave him his knife . I put its edge to the tense leather ; it ran before it ; and then ! – one sudden jerk of that enormous head , a sort of dusty mist about his mouth , no noise – and the bright and fierce little fellow is dropped , limp and dead. A solemn pause ; this was more than any of us had bargained for.

I turned the little fellow over , and saw he was quite dead : the Mastiff had taken him by the small of the back like a rat , and broken it . He looked down at his victim , appeased , ashamed , and amazed , snuffed him all over , stared at him , and , taking a sudden thought , turned round and trotted off .

There are no such dogs now . He belonged to a lost tribe . As I have said , he was brindled , and grey like Rubislaw granite ; his hair short , hard , and close , like a lion’s ; his body thickset , like a little bull - a sort of compressed Hercules of a dog . He had a large blunt head ; his muzzle black as night , his mouth blacker than any night , a tooth or two – being all he had - gleaming out of his jaws of darkness . His head was scarred with the records of old wounds , a sort of series of fields of battle all over it . Rab had the dignity and simplicity of great size ; and having fought his way all along the road to absolute supremacy, he was as mighty in his own line as Julius Caesar or the Duke of Wellington and had the gravity of all great fighters .

Fit end for Rab , quick and complete . His teeth and his friends gone , why should he keep the peace and be civil ? He was buried in the braeface, near the burn , the children of the village , his companions, who used to make very free with him and sit on his ample stomach , as he lay half asleep at the door in the sun , watching the solemnity . '

Nostalgia ?


Quote – ‘ I never said it was a bad thing, I like War Dogs ‘ .


L’histoire se répète , and that some centuries after the battle fields at Agincourt where Sir
Sir Piers Legh was wounded and fell, but his Mastiff bitch stood over him and protected him against all attackers during the long battle. Although Legh later died, the Mastiff returned to Legh's home and was the foundation of the Lyme Hall Mastiffs and a source of chivalry , so beautifully described by then very popular author , Sir Walter Scott , a/o in Ivanhoe [1819] , a tale set in the age of Richard the Lion-Hearted .

In bird’s-eye view - Wilfred of Ivanhoe loves The Lady Rowena * of Avalon , but his father plans marry her to Athelstane of Coningsburgh . Ivanhoe serves with King Richard in the crusades . King' brother John tries to usurp the throne with the help of Norman barons . Richard appears in disguise at the tournament at Ashby de la Zouch , where he helps Ivanhoe to defeat John' knights . At the tournament Sir Brian falls in love with Rebecca , a beautiful Jewess . She is taken captive with her father Isaac , Rowena , Ivanhoe , and Cedric by the Norman barons and imprisoned in Torquilstone .

The King and his band of outlaws , among them Robin Hood , release the prisoners . Rebecca is carried off by Bois-Guilbert and charged of witchcraft . Ivanhoe appears as her champion , opposing Bois-Guilbert , who dies . Rebecca , seeing Ivanhoe' love for Rowena , leaves England with her father . There are basically two sides to this struggle for control of England , the Normans and the Saxons ; the Normans were from the English-hated France , so they didn't have much of a chance of being liked by the Saxons .

So , of course , the English stiff upper-lip is indeed a caricature of the real Briton’ ‘ romantic ‘ nature , but that same conclusion can also be made re his national breeds , the Bulldog & Mastiff , soft souls covered by cloths of harsh determination .

A nice tribute to the Brits , Deborah !



* Note – Dr Sidney Turner , prominent Victorian breeder , OEMC President & Chairman of the Kennel Club renamed his foundation brood ch Rajah’ daughter & ch Colonel’ grandaughter ‘ Laura ‘ into ‘ The Lady Rowena ‘ !

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Nice people !

One of the prominent breeders of the ‘romantic’ Victorian heyday of the breed was

THE BELGIAN REVEREND HENRY K E VAN DOORNE , owner of champion Orlando & breeder of champions Jack Thyr & Frigga , the latter together with her sis ch Frigga Secunda , stood model for Arthur Wardle’ drawing of ‘Ideal Mastiffs’ , which till present is used by a number of English stalwarts as an example for overall type (seen in lateral view).

His curriculum vitae . Henry Van Doorne was born in 1841 at Poeke , a small rural village in the East of Flanders [30 miles west of Appelterre] , as the son of Joannes Van Doorne, the burgomaster of Poeke who was also a wealthy notary.

Henry was an ex-student of the Flemish poet Guido Gezelle who teached him at the seminary of Roeselare where also English pupils resided.



Gezelle , who craved to become a missionary in England , only became appointed as co-director at the English college and as a teacher at the Seminarium Anglo-Belgicum , both in Bruges . But under the impulse of the English converts and art-lovers residing at Bruges , a wave of ‘Anglomania’ arised between Flemish colleagues . It became proclaimed that Englishmen should embrace Catholicism if there should be enough priests.

Gezelle’s pupil Hendrik Van Doorne succeeded in his master’s dream and became ordained Roman Catholic priest at Melior Street , South East London , by Bishop Thomas Grant [1816-1870] , August 24th 1865 , after that he continued his studies at Rome . In September 1866 the Reverend Van Doorne became rector of a Convent at St-Leonard nearby Hastings on the South Coast , further on he became appointed at the mission of the port of Southampton and in 1871 he once again moved to another mission at the South Coast , Christ Church some seven miles West of Lymington where he got acquainted with the aristocratic John Weld of the Lodge . Being a skilled hunter , enamoured by horses and pedigree dogs, he ever was a welcome guest at the Lymington’ Lodge in the nearby of the Isle of Wight . Later on , when working in the London’ Southwark area , he loved to spend some days at the Lodge . In 1878 he accompanied Bishop Danell on his educational trip by railway into the direction of Lymington ,where they stayed at the Weld’ Lodge at the borders of New Forest . In 1873 he became rector of the Convent at Roehampton , North of Wimbledon and the following year he became chaplain of Jos. Charles Mc Grath , the Presbytery, Camberwell New Road nr Lambeth . Rev. Mc Grath was his old fellow student at the Seminarium Anglo-Belgicum at Bruges.

The Reverend Van Doorne was preferably active at Brixton where he justly in 1881 became appointed as pastor . At Brixton wasn’t a chapel nor a school and the parish only counted 75 catholics . The expansion of Brixton parish should become his life’s work remaining there till February 1901 . Many well-to-do families resided there in stately mansions . Father Van Doorne sojourned gladly and easily in higher companies , a/o befriended with James Barry-Ball , the otorinolaryngologist who wrote several medical studies an who was married Flora Weld ‘sis Clara , daughter of Joseph Weld of Lymington . Also a great number of scientists and artists belonged to his circle of friends.

The Reverend Van Doorne was also co-founder and vice-warden of the ‘ Guild of St-Gregory and St-Luke ’ , aiming the promotion of the study of the Christian Antiquity & Archeology and the renewal of the Christian art according to the genuine Neogothic principles . The founding of the Guild was inspired by an ex student of the Seminarium at Bruges , namely James Waele and the first warden was Sir Stuart Knill , ex Mayor of London . It counted under their members a/o the painter PH Westlake , the archeologist Edmund Bishop and the architects J.H. Eastwood & John Bentley , the latter being the designer of ‘ Westminster Cathedral ‘ by order of Cardinal Vaughan.



at left ~ A group portrait f l to r ~ Reverend Henry Van Doorne , Guido Gezelle’ nephew Reverend Caesar Gezelle , Dr Hullin , Miss Eliza Weld & an unknown women.

In 1881 he searched after an appropriate ground for his Neo-gothic parish church and found a propriety ‘ No 4 , Gwydyr House ‘, Trent Road Brixton Rise Brixton , only 500 yards away Her Majesty's Convict Prison Brixton built in 1819 . After episcopal opposition regarding financial support and being a son out of a race of wealthy Flemish notaries , he decided to take the entire charge on one self and bought the mansion & grounds for £ 2.600.



He also constantly collected for the building of his church but also for his school . In this respect , he organised a/o a ‘Grand Garden Party‘ in the Gardens of Gwydyr House , where the well-known artist Westlake signed ‘collecting cards.

Reverend Henry Van Doorne leaved this whole ‘school action ‘ to a group of prominent ladies , under whom maybe also Dr John Sidney Turner’ wife Mrs Isabella Scott , born at Stockwell village , part of Brixton Parish .

Already the next year the Reverend Van Doorne could open a ‘Convent School‘ at Brixton Hill, trusted to the ‘ Notre Dam Nuns ‘ , originating from Namur , a provincial capital in Belgium . Later on it became ‘ Lambeth College ‘ . In 1882 he ordered J. Bentley to design a plan for a Neogothic ‘ Corpus Christi ‘ church in red bricks and a spire 190 feet high , costs were estimated at £ 20.000 . On June 12th 1887 , Bishop Butt opened in state the East part and the left transept and the parish of Brixton flourished , counting eight hundred Catholics but pastor Van Doorne had still to collect for the remaining expansion of his Neogothic Church till he resigned in 1901 .

Due to the industrialisation of the area , many rich families has left Brixton and gradually Brixton became housed by a majority of workers and unemployed people . One couldn’t expect much interest regarding the expansion of a ‘cathedral church ‘ !

Some source mentions that justly before his resignation he stayed some time at the Lodge or Lulworth Castle as a guest of the aristocratic ‘ Joseph Weld family ‘ , conspicuous for its zeal for the Roman Catholic Church .



An interesting note is that the Mastiff breeder JS Cockerton resided only two miles away from Lulworth castle ; he bred a/o Princess Staffordia b April 1892 sired by ch Lord Stafford out of a daughter of the Rev HKE Van Doorne’ champion Jack Thyr , Amalaswintha [Queen of the Ostrogoths , a Germanic tribe that influenced the Roman Empire during the 6th century] !
This dramatic 17th century hunting lodge was inspired by chivalric literature so loved by the Jacobean Court . In 1643 the estate was purchased by Humphrey Weld , a wealthy Londoner , and it became the Weld family’ principal home , superbly set into beautiful parkland with views on the Channel . In the park was built the Catholic church of St Mary by Flora Weld’ great-grandfather , Thomas Weld . A neo-classical building looking like a large garden temple . The interior has a central dome and a marble altar obtained from Rome . Thomas Weld’ son Thomas Weld (1773-1837) was ordained Cardinal in 1829 while his other son , Flora Weld’ grandfather launched in 1830 the famous cutter yacht ‘ Alarm ‘ at 1993 tons , the biggest ever built to that time . It became known as the ‘ Queen of the South ‘ being one of the products of Joseph Weld’ knowledge and understanding of the relatively new science of naval architecture as applied for yachts .

Following the Census Returns of 1891 , the Rev. van Doorne had taken British citizenship and was the head of the household , containing Arthur de Backer , born in 1866 , a painter and listed as a visitor . Probably it was a craftsman who decorated the ‘ Corpus Christi ‘ church .

The Reverend Henry Van Doorne was obviously a Jack-of-all-trades , known as a keen collector of religious & other ‘antiques’ and being a poet and novelist , publishing in 1881 his autobiographical novel ‘ Jan van Noorde ‘ , wherein some didactical references concerning the consequences of alcoholism , the education of children and the benefactions of physical exercises , being very fond of hunting & horse riding .



at left ~ Cardinal Thomas Weld [ 1773-1837] , son of Miss Flora Weld ’ great-grandfather .

During his missionary he made regularly holiday at Poeke where he loved to hunt and ride on horseback in the neighbourhood of the Ruiselede’ farmhouse & wood , owned by the Van Doorne family . In 1901 the Reverend , being weary and ill , returned finally back to Poeke where he resided in his parental house .

Miss Flora Weld [1861-1935] , the daughter of his best friend Joseph Weld of the Lodge , followed him some time later and became his governess at Poeke.

She managed the work of the maids and looked after his goats & pedigree dogs …

If he brought , when on holiday , Orlando or other Mastiff stock with him at Poeke , isn’t known nor if he owned Mastiffs during his retirement there .

The Reverend Henry Van Doorne suffered from liver cancer and he regularly moved via Ostend ~ Dover to Dr James Barry Ball London for an X-ray treatment , but finally he died in 1914 , just before the break out of the 1st World War .

His Mastiff involvement

Since 1878 , the Reverend Henry KE Van Doorne attended the principal Mastiff shows, but he only started his show career in 1886 at the Crystal Palace where his Holda got 1st puppy prize under the eminent judge , Dr John Sidney Turner of Stanton House , Upper Norwood , London SE.

The show report mentioned ' Mastiff bitch puppies had but two entries , much to the regret of the Reverend owner of Holda , who met a warm welcome from Mastiff men , and upon whom the mantle of his old friend , Father J.B. Rowe , may descent .


Holda is of the highest promise and has wonderful size , length of body , perfect symmetry , standing on legs which for bone and shape I never have seen equalled ; her skull and muzzle are very good , her teeth level and but for a light eye and rather light mask .

It would be difficult to find a fault ; her weight at eight months is 117 lbs in fair condition , her toilet was all that could be desired and reflected the greatest credit upon her Belgian keeper, Reverend Henry Van Doorne of Brixron Rise ' .

It seems that the Reverend must have maintained some regular contact with Dr Turner of Upper Norwood , only some 3 fair miles away from Brixton and quite accessible by train . Holda was bred by the Rev. Van Doorne out of Wunna sired by the well-known champion Dr John Sidney Turner' Orlando who later on , according to 'de Bylandt ' , became in the ownership of the Belgian Reverend .



Dr Turner’ Cedric The Saxon sired Wunna , which was his only successful mating according to the Stud Books. He got back to Big Ben and ch Wolsey's brother Prince . Wunna's dam was Mona , pedigree stated in the Stud Books as unknown ; nevertheless it seems interesting to seek after the origin of Holda's mentioned qualities .

Wunna had also a sister , named ' Gytha II ' , so maybe related to Githa b. 1875 , bred by Mr Fritzgerald . She was sister to Crown Prince's dam Merlin b. 1876 , bred by Mr Fitzherbert . They were out of Rhoda sired by the famous ch. The Shah whose [presumably younger] sister Mona , owned by her breeder Mr Balleston , has given a litter in 1878 sired by ch. Wolsey . It could be possible that later on Fitzherbert acquired this Mona and mated [± 1881] her to Cedric The Saxon with as result Wunna and Gytha II , as such called after her niece Githa . In this case Wunna and Gytha II were also going back to the very much-used ' The Shah ' line along his sis Mona .

Maybe , as stud fee , both puppies were firstly possessed by Dr Turner who preferred for some opportunity to conceal Mona's ancestry because of the already omnipresence of The Shah's double grandson, Crown Prince in his own breeding stock and later on they changed hands for some reason and the Reverend Van Doorne became the owner . The Mastiff breeding of Henry Van Doorne was very close , almost an inbreeding to his foundation stock , Wunna , Gytha II & Orlando .

He bred two champions , Frigga b. 1886 & Jack Thyr b. 1886 ; the following was mentioned in the Kennel Gazette review ' The past year 1889 ' written by ' A Young Breeder ' [maybe Mr Charles Court Rice' nom de plume , breeder of champions Frigga Secunda (out of Van Doorne’ ch Frigga) & Elgiva] .

It is noteworthy that in respect to almost all breeds there is an agreement as to the improvement in general quality . It ssems to be practically admitted that the average winnersd of the present day are almost equal to the phenomenal dogs of a few years ago , and that even if entries are comparatively smaller than formerly , it is simply because inferior specimens , such as formed the rank and file in days gone by , are now seldom shown .



at left ~ ch Jack Thyr’ sire ch Orlando , brother to a/o ch Hotspur & uncle to ch Beaufort ; at rigt ch Jack Thyr’ grandsire along the maternal line , ch His Majesty King Canute , brother to Mrs Geo Willins’ ch Cambrian Princess , the dam of the Am. ch Minting ; Canute was also half brother to ch Beaufort . Interesting to note is that ch Jack Thyr’ GGG sire , Gurth [ch The Shah x Rev Hichens’ Mab] was also owned by Mrs Geo Willins of Bradmore House , Hammersmith ; reports about HM King Canute were as following ~ ‘ extraordinary size [206 lbs] , well knit frame , very typical head , rather too much lip ; lacked condition , not straight in his pasterns & now narrow in his thighs .’

' Jack Thyr has since come into Challenge class , where he should do well . Now that Minting is dead I believe Jack to be the best Mastiff living , coming nearer to my ideal than any other dog we have ; he is not a tall dog ( 28 ½ at shoulder , 156 lbs weight ) but has wonderful bone and substance . I consider his skull and muzzle excellent , and his wide and powerful under-jaw put the finishing touch to a very good tout emsemble . His eyes and mask might be darker and there is undoubtedly more of the navvy than of the gentlemen in his look. But I may add that I do not consider this latter characteristic a fault , for I feel that an English Mastiff should be the reverse of a carpet knight . Frigga is as good a bitch as we need wish for , I consider that she would be perfect but for her large ears and her slight tendency to straightness in hocks.'

Later on , Frigga became the dam of the well-known ' Frigga Secunda ' sired by ch. Beaufort's son Sir Stafford and bred by Mr Court Rice . Dam & daughter served as models for the drawing ' Ideal Mastiffs ' by Arthur Wardle [see Appendix , Crystal Palace report by the OEMC Secretary Richard Cook] .

The Reverend’ most influential own-bred Mastiff was Orlando II born August 1887 who sired ch Ogilvie . Orlando II [Orlando ex Holda’ sis Hertha] was described by the Ilford breeder Richard Cook of Ilford kennels [July 1888] ~ ' a very massive dog for his age , with large skull, immense chest & good forelegs but moves badly. Vide below at left .



Ogilvie's breeder Capt. Piddocke (Feb. 1889) described him as : ' has a grand skull frontispiece , with heavy bone , but appears to inherit the weakness of his sire Orlando in hind quarters .'

Orlando II ' son , ch. Ogilvie was the ancestor of all the Mastiff champions born after March 1891 , only two years after Ogilvie's birth ; this can be considered as an unique record also the fact Ogilvie [vide RH Moore’ drawing above at left] shared with the Bulldog ‘British Monarch’ the first prize for best Non-sporting Dog at the Bristol championship show 1891 was a very rare event in the breed history .



Rev Van Doorne resided at the Vicarage , Trent Road , nearby his lifework , the Neo-Gothic Corpus Christi Church at Brixton Hill and nearby the Windmill [see blue point] where convicts of Brixton Prison had to perform penal servitude in the treadmill .

The whip ‘Cat o’nine tails’ , so called because it leaves marks like the scratches of a cat , was invented in ancient Egypt and also used in Victorian prisons ; it consisted of nine knotted cords fastened to a handle.

The Reverend's maiden performance of judging Mastiffs was at the Kennel Club show (Agricultural Hall) in 1890 where he already wrote an very extensive report , only surpassed in length by those of Malcolm Bush Wynn . Van Doorne mentioned a/o ' The late Rev. J.B. Rowe , one of the great & leading authorities on Mastiffs some twenty years ago [bred ch. Stella , niece to ch. Hale's Lion] and who used to be not an infrequent visitor of my kennels , always professed himself a strong adherer to the under hung style of muzzle which is now spoken and condemned by many as the 'modern Bulldog type ' .

In the Field Jan 1st 1869 , the Rev. Rowe writes ' I believe that none of our present dogs can be traced back above 5 or 6 generations . Now as none can be found without some slight stain on their pedigree , we must select that cross which partakes most of the true Mastiff character , and this is , I believe , the Bulldog ; of all strains , if strain must be called , fear the Bulldog least , for it will keep up the character of the dog , if it will lessens his size . He followed the line cut out by Youatt who says the Mastiff head considerably resembles that of the Bulldog , but with ears dependant , also other many other Mastiff critics were expressed in the Field about that same date , almost all of them advocating undershotness .

How then can the accusation that the short bluff undershot muzzle is a 'modern Bulldog type' be substantiated ? How differently the leading organ of sport (The Field) judged then from its reports of to day : - ' Quantum mutatus ab illo .' And yet Stonehenge knew what he was about . I want a Mastiff that possess a bluff, blunt and short muzzle , not to excess , of course , but he must be broad under the eye and carry that width right down to end of the snout . That is where Jack so admirably excels . In the challenge class the Reverend gave 1st prizes to W.K. Taunton' ch Hotspur and Mr Court Rice' ch Frigga but it were the 1st prizes of Open Class who got the challenge awards , Captain Piddocke' Ogilvie and Mrs Lee' Holda . The Reverend' last show entry into the Studbooks was with his champion Jack Thyr , winning the challenge award at Crufts 1891 , beating WK Taunton' Hotspur and Dr Turner' Ayrshire while the bitch cc was awarded to Mr Court Rice' ch Frigga , bred by the Rev. Van Doorne who bred his 11th and also last registered Mastiff litter some months later after which he disappeared from the scene . From 1886 till 1891 only Mr Jason Hutchings has bred more litters , namely 21 .

The Reverend Henry van Doorne named many of his Mastiff stock after Norse mythology . Jack Thyr, Tyr , god of war & athletic sports , whom one hand was bitten off by the wolf Fenris ; Frigga , Frigg , goddess of marriage and the wife of the chief Norse god , Odin ; Heimdal , Heimdall , watchman of the bridge Bifrost which led to the underworld ; Edda , Edda , goddess of myth , oral history & inspiration of poets ; Gerda , Gerd , giant goddess of light , the most beautiful of creatures ; Widar , Vidar , Odin’ son . Orlando [named by Dr Turner] was probably derived from the poem ‘ Orlando Furioso ‘ by Ludovico Ariosto [1473-1533] who described the love of the knight Orlando for Angelica and later on it became a worldwide known opera .



It was at Crystal Palace that Rev Van Doorne made his show début , winning 1st prize puppy class in ‘86 with Holda under Dr Turner . His Jack Thyr got the challenge twice at Crystal Palace [in ‘89 with his son Piddocke’ Don Juan II 2nd Open class after Andrews’ Lord Stafford & in ‘90 , Piddocke’ Ogilvie winning Open Class] . Mr Rice’ Frigga , bred by Rev Van Doorne, got the highest female honours there in ‘90 & ‘91 , beating Dr Turner’ Seabreeze & C Rice’ Frigga Secunda , her daughter .

Crystal Palace was admirably adapted for big exhibitions such as the annual Dog Show of the Kennel Club . The animals were benched all along the nave , which was 1608 ft long . The central transept was reserved for the Judges’ rings . The Palace was a good location because its light airy atmosphere made the barking of the dogs more tolerably than they would have been in a smaller building . The best bred dogs in the country were sent to the show . The Kennel Club had the same authority in the world of dogs as the Jockey Club had on the Turf .

Judge reports concerning ancestors & specimens of Reverend Henry Van Doorne’ stock . Note - Reverend Van Doorne got prizes mainly in London or London’ boroughs ;but also 3x at Brighton [50 miles] , 2x at Warwick [100 miles] & 1x at Manchester * [200 miles] * under WK Taunton .

Cedric the Saxon [sired VD’ foundation bitches Wunna , Holda & Hertha] ~ has a grand shaped head , but he wants wrinkle , and falls away in his quarters ~ a grand dog , and good enough to win in ordinary company ~ we would like him better if shorter and heavier in muzzle .

Orlando [sired some five VD’ litters] ~ is a wonderful dog for his age [11 months] ; with a smaller ear and a darker eye , he would be perfect~ if he goes on improving he will be a crack one of these days , his fault now being that he is too straight in his stifles and hocks ~ a magnificent dog as far as his front is concerned , but he is spoilt by a pair of very straight stifles , which are hardly capable of bearing his weight .

His head is broad and massive , and his muzzle is very square and deep , bone enormous , and colour good~ his head is magnificent , but he has bad forelegs and is too low at the shoulder ~ in stud dogs he had it all to himself and was looking more active and better than we last saw him , and his head simply smoothered everything in the show [Ranelagh 1887] except that of Beaufort ; and Gerda , Frigga and Holda satisfactorily prove that he can beget good bodied , symmetrical offspring .

Hotspur [sired one VD’litter]- another puppy, has his ears set on too high , making his skull appear small, he is inclined to be up-faced , and is not good in his hind quarters ~ by far the best headed Mastiff in the class , is so dwarfed in his hind quarters that is a pity so valuable a dog for stud purposes should be entered for competition , otherwise we felt justified in so doing , we should like to have placed him first for head and shoulders alone.

He is about the most perfect Mastiff in head properties now on the bench , but his straight hocks make him move very badly behind ~ has a better head than either , good in skull and muzzle , perfect dark eye and small thin well carried ear ; in body he is on the small scale , but were his hind-quarters as good as his fore he would have held higher place ~ in very fair trim , a grand type of dog , and his head will long remembered as the model to be attained .         Gytha II [Frigga’ & Gerda’ dam] ~ has a nice skull, and is good under the eyes , but she is small in bone and wanting in substance .

Heimdal [from VD’1st litter Orlando / Wunna] ~ wants time to make up ; his skull and muzzle are good , but his hind quarters are too straight .
If he improves in this respect , he may yet become a nut to crack .

Holda [Heimdal’ litter sis] ~ a bitch puppy of the highest promise , and has wonderful size, length of body , perfect symmetry , standing on legs which for bone and shape I never have seen equalled .

Her skull and muzzle are very good , her teeth level , and but for a light eye and rather light mask it would be difficult to find a fault . Her weight at eight months was 117 lb.~ has to much ear , but stands and moves well and her body is perfection ~ a very good type of Mastiff bitch .

Wodan [VD’ 2nd litter Beaufort / Gytha II] ~ just over a year old , promises to make a first-rate dog. His body is as yet unfurnished , but he has a first-rate head , and a good dark eye, his legs are straight and he moves well ~ shown in bad condition , just managed to score first , owing to the really good points he possesses .

We gave him he benefit of the doubt for possessing soundness and robustness of constitution , of which his condition caused us to have grave doubts , and we hardly know if we were justified in placing him forward under the circumstances.

He is not sufficiently massive for his size , and still shows the cone , being very deficient in temporal muscles ~ has a grand head , almost too short and square , but he is flat-sided .

He possesses a very short head and square muzzle, but he still wants more substance in body for his great length ; in this particular he is , however , showing signs of improvement ; he is too much wrinkled over the muzzle , which gives it a telescopic appearance , and spoils his expression .

He is still making up and looked better than we last saw him ~ possesses so prominently that fine quality and Mastiff character, this dog’s failing is a flatness of rib ; were it otherwise he would as nearly as possible approach the grandeur of his sire , Beaufort .

Gerda [VD’ 4th litter Orlando / Gytha II] ~ has a grand head and plenty of bone , and showed herself to perfection . Except for want of blackness about the ears , she is a little model , well grown , thoroughly symmetrical , and reminded us greatly of Mr Lukey’ once famous Beauty . Gerda is every inch a Mastiff, but is small ~ is on too small a scale, and is short in the middle , good in skull and muzzle but too full and light in the colour of the eye .

She is a very pretty bitch , whose only fault is lack of size ; her head is very good and with a little more substance she would be hard to beat .

Note – Gerda produced the American champion Beaufort’ Black Prince sired by ch Beaufort .

Champion Frigga [Gerda’ sis] ~ is spoilt by her large ears , but her head is good ~ a trifle larger than Gerda , but is not so good in muzzle , colour or bone , still, she is thoroughly symmetrical ~ wants length of body ~ is good in skull and splendid in body, legs , size and condition . Her muzzle is broad , but too pronounced in stop between the eyes ; her greatest fault is large and light ears ~ a large bitch, full of quality , standing on good legs and feet , and but for her large ears would be difficult to beat in any competition ~a bitch possessed of first-class characteristics; her faults, few, being a long way overbalanced by her good qualities .

Alfgar [VD’ 3rd litter Orlando or Hotspur / Wunna] ~ he is not a large dog , but possesses fair size , and except for a slight want of length is very symmetrical . His worst faults are his over large ears and full eyes but his hind-quarters are a credit to his sire ~ he is on the small scale , with fine legs and feet , fair skull and muzzle , but too full in eye , with badly carried ears ~ a moderate specimen only , but has some good points ; his full eye and small bone are against him , whilst a slight dish up in fore face spoils his expression .

Edda [Alfgar’sis] ~ a sweet bitch of very symmetrical form , and possessing what is now a very rare point in Mastiffs , a dark hazel eye ; in skull and muzzle she is good , ears well carried and of the right size and colour , good in body , legs and feet , but she would be improved by more bone ~ she was out of form , especially weak in thighs and quarters ; her head is very typical and true in all points , but her want of muscle and condition should her put back .

Champion Jack Thyr [Orlando / Lady Canute ] ~ a dog of great power , and possesses a good formation of skull and muzzle squarely modelled ; he is exceedingly strong in foreface , and very powerful in underjaw ; his head is equally good , whether viewed in front or profile ; his ears are well carried , but he would be much improved by a darker eye , more colour of mask , and a little more wrinkle over the forehead ; age may however , improve the last point . In bone , body , legs and feet he is good , and he walks very squarely , although he turns one foot a little when standing still . His condition of coat was bad , which detracted a little from his appearance , but his general Mastiff character and general all-round points carried him to the front of this class very easily ~ in good trim , is a very good all-round Mastiff, especially strong in front of the eyes , well shaped in skull , with good body and legs , and he moves in good style . He is mealy in colour of mark, and rather light in eye ~ a very square , well-built dog , with large bone , and well formed skull.



Lady Dorothy [Edda’ sis] ~ showed herself very badly , carrying her ears at the top of her skull , and standing if her forelegs were very weak , otherwise a very near thing with Gerda .         Orlando II [Orlando ex Hertha ]~ is a very massive dog for his age , with large skull , immense chest , and good forelegs , not good in his hind-quarters , and moves badly ~ has a grand skull frontispiece , with heavy bone , but appears to inherit the weakness of his sire, Orlando, in his hind-quarters.

Alonso [Jack Thyr’ brother] ~ good type of dog , but he moved badly , and was shown in wretched condition , having every appearance of mange , for which he afterwards was turned out of the show ~ a finely grown dog , since the judging been sold to Mr Moore of Boston U.S.A.

Fjoldswieder [Jack Thyr : Fjorda ] ~ what a name~ is a very fine , large , long dog , one of Jack Thyr’ best , but not to be placed in the front rank .



American Ch Beaufort' Black Prince' greatest match was at Crufts 1896 against that formidable brindle ch Peter Piper , the latter ultimately being the winner under judge Henry George Woolmore , Peter Piper' breeder who bred a/o also ch Crown Prince ...

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__________________
Ubi fons, ibi purior aqua

Freely guess you don’t care , but my lyrical heart is bleeding because even in the 1860s a Tiger wasn’t a Tiger !

The first Kennel Club Stud Book edition (in 1873) listed not less than 123 Mastiff specimens , a/o Bill George’ Tiger whose description was by far the most extensive of all , even more than ch Turk ; truth commands to mention that the KCSB of 1877 contained an even wider pedigree of the latter .`



At stud , Bill George’ Tiger not only sired the all time first breed champion , Mr Edgar Hanbury’ Duchess but also sired Wolf KCSB No 2358 who grandsired the next Hanbury’ champions , Queen & Rajah , parents to the historical well established ch Wolsey . Bill George’ Tiger great grandsired also THV Lukey’ ch Beauty and her brother Baron , who grandsired ch Rajah’ son ch The Shah who on his turn double * grandsired ch Crown Prince , his better balanced brother , ch Prince Regent . * In case ch The Emperor was the natural sire of them instead of ch Rajah’ grandson Young Prince , as many contemporary breed connoisseurs definitely suggested .

Contemplating about this fine line up without any historical equals , one can , IMO , state that Bill George was indeed a superior stud pillar of early Mastiff pedigree breeding , nevertheless he was described by MB Wynn as – ‘crooked in his legs and slack in loin , both defects probably owing to bad rearing , as his immediate progenitors were very good in both respects (although some of Mr lukey’ old strains were , Mr Thompson informed me , slack in loin , and very weak and crooked in their legs) and Tiger’ stock , although one or two were a little slack in loin , were very straight in the legs , and also very active animals . Lord Kingsdown’ Rufus ( note – a Bill George’ Tiger son ) could hump a five barred gate when past eight years old and Captain , another son of Bill George’ Tiger’ was one of the fastest and most determined cat killers of any breed I have seen . Bruin , another son of Tiger’ , was a remarkably muscular and symmetrical animal with vast bonz , and splendid limbs Four sons of Tiger’ , out of different bitches , died in my possession , all being old dogs , and had the best of limbs , and were very active up to the last .’ MB Wynn also wrote that – ‘Bill George himself , like many modern London breeders , was somewhat cramped for room , and having at times a number of dogs on the ground , his home reared puppies had not sufficiently liberty and exercice , the result beibg that this Mastiff breeding operations were anything but satisfactory , I believe . Wolf , Phillis , Bruin , Rufus , and Branch were very unoform in type . The most striking characteristics of the Tiger line were magnificent head , jet black ears and muzzles , generally stone fawn with the dark clouded or sooty back , showing the brindle blood of their ancestry , ears medium size , but rather inclined to be too large and thick , coat hard and fine .’

That Mr Edgar Hanbury , a highly regarded breed specialist judge from the early days of dog showing until the 1880ties , had chosen Bill George’ Tiger , seems not to have been a mere accident because the man was in-the-know and most probably looked at a stud , well linebred throughout quite some generations , decently based on the strains of the two most prominent breeders of the 1840s & 1850s , the ‘breed associates’ , THV Lukey of Morden , London & James Wigglesworth Thompson of Halifax , Yorkshire .

Another interesting detail is that Bill George’ Tiger was a full cousin to that other stud pillar bred by JW Thompon , that famous Cautley’ Quaker who’s behind ch Turk along paternal (f3) & maternal (f4) line .



Studying Ormonde’ enormous pedigree , on can presume that the nucleus of ‘recorded’ early Mastiff breeding must have been situated in the North of England , confirmed by Stonehenge' words ∼ ‘the good English Mastiffs have all come from Lancashire , Cheshire & the North of England , where some years ago they were still in considerable request for guarding large bleaching grounds‘.

An example a fortiori was ‘Cautley’ Quaker’ bred by a breeder from Yorkshire [North of England] . Malcolm Bush Wynn' History of The Mastiff mentions ~ ‘Quaker [bred by James Wigglesworth Thompson , Halifax Yorkshire] carried all before him at the Birmingham show and a portrait of him appeared in the Illustrated London News [December 1861] being among a group of prize dogs , drawn by Harrison Weir , who very cleverly, by way of contrast , placed the prize bloodhound by his side . Instructive talent of this sort should be paid his due .



The drawing shows that Quaker carried his ears partially erect , a characteristic of the true old English Mastiff as shown in Bewick' cuts .’ Quaker was sold as a puppy to Henry Cautley of Bramley near Leeds and later on obtained the sobriquet of 'champion of England' .

Note - George Fox founded the Society of Friends or Quakers , a variant of Puritanism, which carried through strongly on the Puritan concern for a Spirit-mediated encounter between God and man who literally 'trembles' at the word of God , a decidedly different religious experience opposite other Puritan groups a/o the Congregationalists with Sir Titus Salt as a prominent member .

It could be possible that Mr James Wigglesworth Thompson , who was seemingly on friendly terms with the wealthy manufacturer Sir Titus Salt , named this dog 'Quaker' as a kind of nickname ; by the way , Edgar Hanbury and Mark Beaufoy , leading Mastiff breeders of the Victorian era , both descended from Quaker families .



James Wigglesworth Thompson [1818-1875] bred as already stated also another very renowned stud pillar , the brindle Bill George' Tiger sired by the red fawn Lion owned by Sir Titus Salt who lived in 'Crownest' , Lightcliffe nearby Brighouse , only some miles removed from James Thompson' residence and also in the close nearby of Kirklees Hall , the living place of Sir George Armytage whose Lion sired Sir Titus Salt' Lion .

Sir Titus Salt [1803-1876] was a wool stapler who discovered the fabulous qualities of the 'alpaca' fibre ; later on alpaca garments were found in the finest fashion houses all over the world . By the mid 19th century his massive Salts Mill was the leading edge of textile industry , employing more than 3000 people . He was a leading member of the West Riding Congregationalism and also a philanthropist who ordered to build a model manufacturing town , called Saltaire , which comprised 900 houses , stores , parks , playgrounds , schools , almshouses for older people and a hospital . He advocated a severe discipline but he refused to have a police office in the village , otherwise pubs were forbidden .

Malcolm B. Wynn’ ' The History of The Mastiff ' mentioned ∼ 'The Lancashire cloth Mills were places where Mastiffs were kept in considerable numbers both for fighting among each other and as watch dogs .' So it could be possible that also Salts Mill , some 20 miles away from Lancashire , also housed a Mastiff crew …



Sir Titus Salt was also Member of Parliament from 1859 until 1861 , so it could be he regularly resided in London where he could have contacted Bill George , a very well known dealer of quality dogs . In 1876 the big industrial city Bradford gave Sir Titus Salt a civic funeral ; the procession was watched by more than 100.000 people .

Another Yorkshire man who kept Mastiffs at that period was Mr Holdsworth of Ashdale Hall , near Elland ; he was James Wigglesworth Thompson’ relative by marriage who owned another Lion who was mated to Duchess , a bitch found in a fox trap by the Kirklees' gamekeeper John Crabtree .

Looking at images of those breed forebears long gone by , they definitely do not match in quality the actual Mastiff bests , cfr Miss World in the Neanderthal Dark Ages , but it was from these kinds of dogs the today Mastiff owes his multi-colored pedigreed origin , a history of splendor (in goods & bads) which many fanciers of other breeds envy us .

Hope that hereby our ‘ Tiger ’ is rehabilitated in some suggestive way ...

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There always were , are , and shall exist different views re breed standard matters and that’s quite right ; for the sake of the breed it’s important to compare opinions or angles of view based upon arguments all kind .

Where got Mr Edmund Gifford his mustard from ?

Reading breed history , one cannot deny Mr Oliver ‘ controversiality . The KC Crystal Palace show , October 1927 , was the first KCSB entry of a Hellingly owned Mastiff where their Wantley Joy , bred by Henry Young , got a 3rd prize in Limit bitches ; the bitch cc was for ch Woden’ daughter ch Ursula , bred by Miss Ianthe Bell .

Less than three years later , the Mastiff Breeders Association was formed by Mr & Mrs Oliver . In the meanwhile their foundation brood ch Wantley Joy got seven cc’s and Joseph , but their foundation stud achieved a palmares of six challenge awards while their mutual daughters Hellingly Joy & Honor got respectively two and one tickets .

The male show challengers were ch Westcroft Blaise’ brother ch Bulger (4) , ch Duke’ son ch Benvolio (3) , Cleveland Premier (3) , ch Arolite (2) , ch Uther Penarvon (2) , and four others each one cc , namely ch Woden , chHavengore Bill , ch Duke’ brother ch Prince & ch Westcroft Blaise’ son Benton Adonis ; the female show challengers were the Menai’ Yosemite (2) , her daughter Juno (2) , Juno’ niece Stella (1) , the Woden’ daughters Ursula (2) , Helga (2) , Lady Here (1) , ch Westcroft Blaise’ daughters Dervot Dawn (2) & Hardingham Lady Barbara (1) , and finally ch Cleveland Premier’ niece Benton Joan (1) .

Before trying to give some relief on the mustard matter , firstly some relevant quotes of his article published in the Kennel Gazette , November 1930 .

‘At the Crystal Palace Shows during the five years from 1871 to 1875 , an average of 76 dogs was benched each year , showing that at that period Mastiffs were the backbone of the shows , and much more important than any other large breed ‘

‘We find that in 1883 , the year in which the Old English Mastiff Club was formed , 219 Mastiffs were registered , although the decline in the popularity of the breed has already commenced . This total has never since been equalled , and it was recorded at a date before registration became a compulsory preliminary to exhibition .’

‘There can be little doubt that the decline may be attributed largely to lack of attention to soundness in the past . It is useless to attempt to built on unsouns foundations . The average man who desires to keep a big dog , wants a sound active animal , with four good legs and feet , and shapely hind quarters . He is not attracted by a fat and lazy unsound dog , and cares little for specialised head points .’

The standard description itself was well thought out , and , on the whole , admirably drafted . It does great credit to its authors , Dr J Sidney Turner , the Reverend W Mellor , and Mr W K Taunton . The numerical value of points was invented in 1890 . Evidently those should be used with the greatest caution . If they were adhered to rigidly and unsound monstrosity , devoid of all type and quality , might putstrip all competitors .’

‘Fortunately , there are some signs of improvement in Mastiffs in the direction of soundness , though much more is still to be desired . Straight hocks and stifles , and flat sides , are still apt to be the rule than the exception . Burdensome hindquarters , cow hocks , goose rumps , and ungainly tails are far too commonly met with .’

‘ In considering the maintenance and improvement of type , it is possible to pay attention too much attention to the old dogs of thirty or more years ago . The type was then much more uniform than at present , because the older breeders better understood the value of ood blood , and there was little crossing .’

‘ For instance , one fetish which to-day would be sternly discouraged is the search for the too short head and muzzle , which contributes to unsound hindquarters , though , of course , too long a muzzle is equally objectionable . We want neither the pig face nor the fiddle face ; a just medium should be aimed at . ‘

‘ Height has become of even more importance since the Bull Mastiff was erected as a separate breed . It is a common error in many minds that the Mastiff should be low on the leg . We do not want a leggy animal , but there should be just proportion of height combined with great length of body to secure symmetry .’

Two years later he wrote another article in the Kennel Gazette (December 1932) . Some excerpts –

‘ At one time , about the irst ten years of the present century , some blamed fanciers for giving preference to the brindle colour , wich was then in the ascendant , and surmized that the diminution of interest was largely due to this cause , as the brindle colour would never be popular with the public .’

‘ I cannot help feeling that the standard description and numerical scale of points have in themselves been an important contributory factor .’

‘ I feel that judges and breeders would be greatly assisted if there were added to the standard description , a list of faults indicating those that should be regarded as disqualifications , and those which should be considered as less serious . For a great deal of the standard description itself I have nothing but approval , but it seems to me to require reconsideration , and in some particulars amplification , in others reasonable amendment .’

‘ What is the use of a watch dog which can run no faster than a child and is exhausted within fifty yards ? Is not the dog that can spring upon a felonious intruder more formidable than one , however massive , which can only painfully rear itself up on it hind legs ?

‘ If the 1:2 muzzle/skull ratio is intended as a maximum it appears to me simply fantastic ; if it is intended as an average I am satisfied that more latitude is required . ‘

‘ I would suggest a proportion 6:10 muzzle/skull .’

‘ Next the excessive cult of foreface has distracted the attention of breeders from the enormous importance of obtaining correct expression . It is dignity , and ot impudence , which is looked in the Mastiff , and the enlarged pug desired does not fulfil what both public taste and expert canine opinion will require , if the breed is ever again to take the place which it should hold in the canine world .’

‘ I am sorry to see that at some recent shows animals , underhung like the roof of a house , dish-faced , with a definite lay-back of the muzzle , have been favoured in the show ring in spite of lack of size and substance .’

‘ Another mistake no doubt unintentionally made in the 1883 description was the extended latitude accorded to the undershot jaw . The Old English Mastiff was level mouthed , not underhung .’

‘ The undershot mouth deceives the eye with a false impression of squareness . In most cases the underjaw , instead of being wide and square , has a tendency to be semi-circular , and the lower canines being brought too far forward , and closing too far in front of the upper canines , causes a kind of puffing of the upperlip , thus making the muzzle appear squarer than it really is . An underhung mouth is particularly inappropriate in a dog whose characteristics are supposed to be power and strength without ferocity and vindictiveness ; it tends to destroy the true Mastiff expression and causes to be or appear to be dish-faced .’

‘ Squareness of face is no doubt desired , but this should be subordinate to the look of good-natured grandeur , allied to strength and courage .’

‘ The eyes should be small and wide apart , rather deep sunk , not so much in the socket as in the folds of skin from the eyebrows , with close fitting eyelids , not showing the haw nor triangular as in the hound .’

‘ There should be no flues , or wrinkle , on the cheeks , which should be well developed with the maxillary muscles standing out boldly .’

‘ If the standard is to be a real guide to judges some differences between male and female type should be given . The sexual characteristics in Mastiffs are well marked . They are by no means exhausted by difference in size and weight .’



Later on he wrote a quite extensive historical article illustrated by following specimens – Miss Hales’ ch Lion b 1866 and his nephew ch Turk b 1867 , ch Green’ Monarch’ b 1871 and his son Mark Beaufoy’ Nero b 1875 , ch The Shah b 1873 , ch Beaufort’ progeny Ilford Lady Coleus b 1887 and ch Beaufort’ Black Prince b 1890 , Eldee’ Duke b 1892 & the brindle Black Peter b 1895 , the brindle ch Lidgett Viscount b 1911 , ch The Scarlet Pimpernel b 1913 and his younger sis ch Young Mary Bull b 1914 , ch (Hellingly) Joseph b 1925 and the brindle ch Hellingly Cardinal b 1930 , in a way of comparison together with the statue of Molossus on the same page .

It’s no fact but rather one seems to be inclined these examples could be somehow representative re Mr Oliver’ flavors ; it is quite odd , Mr Oliver being a brindle fancier , the article doesn’t figure illustrations of famous brindles as ch Wolsey , his grandson ch Cardinal , ch Ogilvie or his grandsons ch Peter Piper & ch Marksman but also other historical specimens are lacking , as a/o ch Beau and his son Beaufort , ch Crown Prince and his very succesful F1 progeny or even grand contemporary non-Hellingly examples .

Reading between the sentences , one could , IMO , get the impression that Mr Oliver would copy the general type of top winning specimens during the early 1870s , considered by Mr Oliver as thé heyday for the breed with examples as Miss Hales’ ch Lion , his nephew ch Turk , ch Turk’ nephew ch Briton and that very large ch Green’ Monarch . It were those dogs who got the champion prizes at those mentioned Crystal Palace’ shows from 1871 to 1875 , all quite resembling in type , somewhat houndy on the leg and rather pale in head requisites but maybe oozing Mr Oliver’ idea about the breed – ‘ good-natured grandeur ‘ , exemplified by their height at shoulder and dignity in the face .

Nevertheless , it isn’ proven that this historical period ( 1871-1875 ) was characteristed by a much higher degree of soundness opposite the following times , highlighted by the more stocky type representants of the Crown Prince - & Beau strains .

Also already mentioned in a former post it was Stonehenge who remarked in his book ‘ The Dogs of the British Islands ‘ , published in 1878 ~ ‘ Mastiffs were by no means a breed of handsome dogs , for we read that the feet were often weak and flat , the legs small in bone and bend at the knees , and that they frequently had cat-hams , and to gallop was quite beyond their power ‘ .



Ch Turk’ hindquarters weren’t examples of great power as being rather poorly muscled in second thighs and his most famous son at stud , Big Ben , wasn’t shown due to lameness . MB Wynn mentioned that Ch Turk’ dam Hilda (Miss Hales ch Lion’ sis) – ‘was a long bodied , large bitch , but very poor in head , light bone , and decidly leggy .



Miss Hales’ ch Lion’ photograph as an older dog , in standing position , displays rather a slackness in his hollowed loin , being high at the rear and obviously straight in stifles and hocks ( vide No 21 p 96 of Henry Webb’ Dogs , 1873 , palmares of 21 , owned by Miss Hales , is given on p 287 ) , altogether displaying a stature of 'grandeur' but , IMO , not even a sounder Mastiff than ch Crown Prince !

There seems to exist only photograph (vide Dr JS Turner’ Kennel Club Encyclopaedia) of another famous dog of that era , ch Green’ Monarch’ , but unfortunately in a lying position , being a good boned specimen , having rather some more depth in head opposite the older ch Turk , but seemingly also long legged . An image in standing position could have given some relief re his soundness , especially as his son , Mark Beaufoy’ ch Nero , born 1875 , seemed to have been a quite sound animal in respect to his contemporaries .



Reverend ,

Disappointedly , no ‘Brown’ named Mastiff breeders but the actual British Prime Minster is your namesake , Gordon Brown . Hope this satisfies your pride .

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Ubi fons, ibi purior aqua

Ch Woden’ dam was out of Nell unr. sired by Collyhurst Squire ( see head study at left below ) who was out of Minerva , sis to Beowulf & Blackbery (see pic.s in former post) sired by Stapleford Pedro ; it is of interest to compare the heads of Collyhurst Squire versus Roger of the Fens in order to get an idea re Bull Mastiff influences during the early years after WW I .



Two famous pre-war lines were never blended , according to the Kennel Club Stud books , namely Hellingly and Havengore , but there was indeed one single Hellingly / Bell fusion .

Mr John Illingworth’ brindle champion Broomcourt Marcon , born March 1934 and bred by Ben Bennett out of ch Broomcourt Comedienne ( ch Woden’ son Cleveland Comedian x ch Hellingly Ajax’ sis Hellingly Arethrusa ) sired by ch Hellingly Cardinal , came from the only KCSB registered litter which was a blending between Hellingly blood and Miss Bell’ ch Woden .

Marcon was quite successful at shows ; at the age of eleven months , he already got a 3rd Open Class at Glasgow , under Mrs Tracey Oliver of Hellingly , a 3rd Limit under Sam Crabtree , and at the age of 22 months he gained his first certificate under Guy P Greenwood , owner of ch Duke , at Cruft’s 1936 he got a 3rd in Open Class, beaten by ch Havengore Christopher & ch Hellingly Joseph’ son Trelyon Dick and judge Sam Crabtree reported in Our Dogs – ‘ Broomcourt Marcon , a brindle , has size to recommend him , good bone , legs , and feet , big skull ; a little more depth of foreface and more wrinkle would improve him ‘ while the winner , the two years old ch Havengore Christopher was described as – ‘ A fawn with a black mask , good skull , nice length and squareness of foreface , very nice wrinkle and expression , rare body , ample bone , best of legs and feet , very good mover .’



Marcon got his second challenge award under the allrounder W J Nichols , runner up being his nephew ch Hellingly Marksman' son ch Hellingly Mark and was made up at Birmingham 1937 by Mrs Lucy Scheerboom of Havengore who preferred him above the ch Uther Penarvon’ sons Despot and Herga Pluto .



Marcon’ photograph was accompanied by the following text – ‘ This is an untouched photograph of the latest British champion dog . He won his certificates at both the Mastiff Breeders Association’ and the Old English Mastiff Club’ Show . He is not chance bred , as his sire is a champion , also his dam . His constitution is sound , he has never had a day’s illnes , and without doubt he is a dog the fancy should be ptoud of . His owner , Mr J Illingworth , is not a new starter in the breed , but one of the old school , who , when he takes a dog to a show , knows it is a good one . It was his champion Ashenhurst Cedric that did so much for the breed '.



Ch Deleval Alftruda was out of Goldhawk Imperator' grandaughter Deleval Richilda sired by ch Uther Penarvon' son The Druid out of ch Westcroft Blaise' daughter Lady Hildur . Alftruda got her tickets from Guy P Greenwood , Sam Crabtree & finally at the last pre-war show at Harrogate , September 1939 , from the allrounder S Warburton .

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Ubi fons, ibi purior aqua

Without any breed authority re breeding , showing or judging , I only try to advise the fancy based upon historical backgrounds . It should be a shame ignoring knowledge of the then stalwarts and only trust upon own ‘actual ‘ breed experiences . Breed history is also loaded by disastrous results of quite a lot of ‘fads’ which can happen again and again , as the fancy of such an extreme breed of dog is always subject of ‘rages’ all kind .

It’s amazing that a lot of breed authorities when becoming older were or are more focused on the happy ‘sound’ medium in our extravagant breed , as a/o Mr W K Taunton , Mr C Habig and also the late masterly genius , Mr Douglas Olliff of Wyaston kennels , Lydney , Gloucester , founder of the actual Mastiff Assocation in Britain .



It looks if age enhances the X-raying capacities re breed development which gives the opportunity to distillate the intrinsic nucleus in omitting all superfluousness in order to attain ultimate purity re breed content and value . May sound pompously , but I certainly do not pretend , it’s the way I contemplate breed history .

Enjoy both your happy meal !

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I have moved all your history over for you Marcel, and thanks on the belt history.  It is 60% off today and this may be the day the non Lady-D goes down in history on a great theft................Welcome back Marcel.......You were missed. 

Marcel, I am cleaning up what I moved for you and reinserting to adjust for the Grandness you made on certain things, as you said once too large is uncomfortable and you go beyond the margins.............so I am making you fit just perfect here and when you decide to enlarge............just enlarge once do not touch the box for really big...........