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| Posted 12/02/07 at 04:36 AM | Reply with quote #1 |
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i would love to hear about this subject.
How much is a quality mastiff pup worth and are they all worth the same?
A breedable adult vs. an altered one
Full and limited registration
And are they worth the price?
What do buyers think of the prices; just right, too high, too low...
What do buyers expect for their money?
etc...
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Tanksmom
Registered: 08/22/07
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 11:29 AM | Reply with quote #2 |
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Good one...
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tatetori2
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 11:57 AM | Reply with quote #3 |
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Angie I can only speak for myself so here it goes. I think a fair price to pay for a mastiff pup is between $2000 to $2500 . If you do your homework and go to a reputable breeder your chance of getting a show pup is good. I believe you should get to know your breeder well. They should be someone you would really want to be friends with. You never know how a pup is going to turn out, you can only hope. If your Breeder/Mentor has the experience they have a good chance of picking out a pup that they think may be above the rest but still no guarantees. They too want to sell you a good pup because they know the pup will be out there with their name on it. I would never get upset if showing didn't work out mostly because first ,I wanted a family member ,if he was showable ,great, but if not it doesn't matter. You still have a family member .
Is my quality puppy worth the price Yes If he is a quality puppy I believe he should be sold on full registration. I want to be able to be trusted to make the right decision about my pup. If the breeder sold the pup thinking this pup was showable and trusted the pup in the buyers care then I feel this is fair.
I expect a healthy puppy with a great temperament. Anything else is just a plus.
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Maureen
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 12:16 PM | Reply with quote #4 |
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Mary, well said. I sell my pups as pets first, because that is what they will be most of their lives. I tell my puppy buyers that if they turn out "show potential" that is "icing on the cake" Showing is a small part of their life. As a breeder you put together the best you can, suited to each other and let the genes work their magic.
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MotherofPearl
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 12:31 PM | Reply with quote #5 |
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Well said Mary and Maureen. Trust your buyer to make the right decision on showing and breeding and full reg..and if not, maybe they shouldn't be getting one of your puppies. There has to be a mutual trust and respect. Pets first and foremost and yes, Maureen the rest is icing. I see many prices but I believe that some of the price variations come from how much testing a breeder does, who the parents are, if they used their own stud or had to hire help. I think some breeders take all that in to account when pricing. Like many things in life you get what you pay for. I once talked to someone "selling mastiffs". I asked for pics of the parents, a copy of the pedigrees and any tests that were done. All I got was a picture of the grandfather....nothing else. It was a nice picture but meant nothing to me as she could provide me with no other info. Needless to say I have never contacted that person again. Would I pay $2,000-$2,500 for another well-bred mastiff???? In a heartbeat! In the right situation, I'd pay more.
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 01:25 PM | Reply with quote #6 |
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The real reason I ask is because I was perusing BYB sales adds for Mastiff puppies last night -and taking names - could not help but think that the high price of a quality dog is keeping these people in business....the prices went so low as $500 but all the way up to $3000 - which blew me away - Imagine spending $3000 on a crappy bred dog - note no dogs are crappy, just the people who created them.......
Am I in anyway suggesting that quality Mastiffs are too expensive? Hell NO.
I'm just disturbed about the over flow of cheep puppies.
I think part of educating people about dogs is teach them that you do get what you paid for......mostly I feel disturbed.
Lots of people read these boards and this is a good subject for new people looking for a puppy who don't know much at all and just see the difference in prices. I am sure most of them ask themselves why would I pay 2000 for a pet if I could get one for 1/2 the price.
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 01:30 PM | Reply with quote #7 |
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Quote: Is my quality puppy worth the price Yes If he is a quality puppy I believe he should be sold on full registration.
Do you think that people think that a high price tag = quality?
or that full registration = quality?
I know what the knowledgeable people here will answer - I feel we need to talk about this so that we can connect to the people out there on the www
How can we curb this ignorance while sitting on our butts in front of these computer screens?
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MotherofPearl
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 01:32 PM | Reply with quote #8 |
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Angie, I totally agree. Educating buyers is very important. I even asked one lady why hers were so much less expensive and she couldn't even answer me. You absolutely get what you pay for. People need to talk to breeders (more than 1) and ask questions. I asked the same thing when I was offered a dog for $1200 for full reg. and breeding rights, etc....but when she couldn't even produce a pedigree or any info on blood lines I knew it was not where I wanted my mastiff to come from.
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Maureen
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 01:35 PM | Reply with quote #9 |
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Most breeder will tell ya, mastiffs puppies are all close in price. It is WHEN you pay. Pay upfront or in vet bills later. Now you pay $500. and get real lucky and get a healthy pup. But if you test, show and don't cut corners, there is NO WAY you could sell pups at that price and break even.
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Blair
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 01:41 PM | Reply with quote #10 |
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Angie,
I can tell you Steph and I looked at many mastiffs and spoke to people in surrounding region of Texas of which there are many. If we would have done an impulse buy (as we almost did) then money would have been the primary factor. However, once we slowed down and educated ourselves better on the breed then temperament and pedigree probably became our most important factors.
Temperament because of our multiple dog household and pedigree not because of prestige, but because we wanted the best chance possible of owning a very healthy mastiff.
The last consideration was we would never, ever, ever buy a puredog that we were not provided full registration on. Whether we breed, neuter, spay, or ever show a dog we firmly believe that is our decision to make. That is why I feel it is so important to get to know your breeder. 1) So they trust you and you trust them. 2) So they are there for you, if needed, to provide counsel when it comes to making those types of decisions.
Blair
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Maureen
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 01:45 PM | Reply with quote #11 |
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Blair, Also, if things go right, you will have a relationship for years ( usually around 10) with your breeder. Hope it will be a pleasent and helpful relationship. So this is another reason to pick the right breeder and pup.
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tatetori2
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 01:45 PM | Reply with quote #12 |
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I know what you are saying Ang . They have to consider what went on in the months before and after the pup was born. The trips to the Vet, the care that the breeder gave.Just being up all night caring for these little guys is worth the price. Yes they could get a pup for $500 . I don't think the $500 pup had such care. I always say Do your homework. You have to ask the questions . Read pedigrees. Go on the forums. Question everything. It's a big investment so spend your money wisely. One more thing Never say lets just go look at them. They are just too hard to resist.
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Maureen
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 01:49 PM | Reply with quote #13 |
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Mastiffs are not cheap. They eat a lot, their medical bills are higher, their "STUFF' is more expensive. So when I get an inquiry about lowering the price because they can not afford to pay that much, I have to wonder if they can afford to raise a mastiff pup.
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HenryFamily
Registered: 11/19/07
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 03:33 PM | Reply with quote #14 |
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Most of you will cringe when I say this, but we paid close to $3,000 for our English Mastiff.. We bought him from a small petstore that we just so happened to walk into on mothers day in '06; Diesel had been born on March 2nd and you could tell he had never been outside of a kennel. We have his bloodlines but the breeder was out of Illinois... the pet store was in VA, so we never had a chance to see any of his family or to meet the breeder.
For me it was an expensive rescue for a beautiful and very healthy pup. We have had nothing but froglegs and a wonderful temperment. We took a chance and I wouldn't recomend it to everyone, but I don't think every decision should be made on whether the dog is going to be a good show dog and has all the right blood lines.
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 04:15 PM | Reply with quote #15 |
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all dogs are equal - the mutts, the pure, the young, old, sick, healthy, good tempered or bad......I do question why someone wouldn't question the validity of a $3000 price "tag" puppy. There are so many dogs to "save", when you purchase a dog from a byb of petshop you are not rescuing it - you are contributing to the problem. That may sound hard on someone who has "good intentions" but it's a simple truth of supply and demand. Each time you purchase a dog from this sort of situation you are indeed maintaining the demand. That puppy' mother did not get saved but the cycle will continue as long as people give in to their impulses and heart strings. |
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TCMastiffs
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 05:23 PM | Reply with quote #16 |
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Mastiffs puppies raised right, such as those raised by the breeders on this forum, are worth their price. It costs a lot to raise a litter right! But beyond the cost of raising the litter, testing parents, etc....raising the puppies is a 24/7 job! I have only bred and raised one litter (co-bred with my mentor) but have been lucky to have been able to help with several others bred by my breeder/mentor. It is a lot of work if done right.
Another thing, the difference in price between pet and show potential. The breeders I have purchased my pups from sold all puppies at one price as their puppies are family companions first and foremost and as others have already said, if they choose to show that is just the icing on the cake.
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Tanksmom
Registered: 08/22/07
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 06:51 PM | Reply with quote #17 |
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Well this is how I got ripped off I did believe that you pay the money for the quality. The breeder said the right words. There were puppys out there for way cheaper. I was going for the best, thinking this was one of the best, eliminating health problems etc.
However as I found out the hard way, you can't trust people's word for it. You have to study all this. It was sold to me that tank had 33 champions in the last five generations, and well he does. But it means nothing, I now know this, but it was very easy to "take" someone with no experience like myself.
I know breeders arent' fond of byb. The sad fact is that most ordinary people who want a mastiff dont' have 2,000 to shell out for one, so they do end up going to a byb.
To alot of people with no knowledge of the breed 700 is alot of money, when you can get labs all day for 200 etc.
My husband has always thought you get what you pay for, in this case it didnt' work out, you live and you learn.
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Sandragon
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 08:27 PM | Reply with quote #18 |
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The sad part is there are many people producing puppies and saying they are show quality and they are not. Just because a dog is a pure breed and is on full registration does Not make it a show dog. Or breeding quality. There are many that have paid big bucks and have been told its a show quality pup when in fact its not. The true is this is being done not only by BYB but by so called reputable breeders as well. Yes you can put a high powered handler on a dog and finish just about anything again that does not make is show quality or breeding quality. Some handlers can finish a stick..
So you need to educate your self on what truly is show quality and how to pick a pup.
Read breeding better dogs by pat trotter.. she says how many breeders own the top dogs in the country?? not many. why? they dont know how to pick a pup.. The sell their best ones..lol
just because a dog has a lot of champions in its pedigree does not make it show quality.. Just because you get it from a well known breeder does not make it show quality.
You want a show dog then learn what faults are and how to pick a pup.. Dont believe everything you hear or that you are told. The buyer is as responsible as the breeder. Know what you are buying and what your getting. NO ONE CAN guarantee any pup will grow up to be a show/breeding quality pup.
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orcasislandmastiffs
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 08:53 PM | Reply with quote #19 |
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I am so thankful I started with rescue for my first 2 mastiffs. I learned to much from the rescue coordinator and she encouraged me to join my local mastiff club to meet others in the breed. Also to go to as many shows as I could so I could learn about the breed. Why do so many people want a puppy to start with if it is just a pet?????
Trish
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Kathy
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 08:57 PM | Reply with quote #20 |
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Are good, sound Mastiffs worth the $$$ ? You bet. Our beautiful brindle boys ended up costing about $8.50 a pound...a wonderful investment and we love every ounce of them 
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madchemist
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 09:09 PM | Reply with quote #21 |
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Kathy did you eat Bear and Biggun?
If one is concerned with money then mastiffs are NOT the breed to have, the initial purchase price is just a small slice of what they cost monetarily.
Food, medications, toys, air freshner and lots of it, ear plugs if you can't take snoring, paint and brushes to fix what they werent supposed to chew on, fences, big vehicle to haul the beast in etc etc etc...... add up.
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Kathy
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 09:16 PM | Reply with quote #22 |
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Ha, Ha, Clinton...guess it did sound like that, didn't it? No, but we have paid more per pound for good Texas Beef...of course we usually feed a little of that to Bear and Biggun, so maybe they are not such a bargain after all
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HenryFamily
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 09:24 PM | Reply with quote #23 |
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I call my pet shop pup a rescue because in the area that he was sold he would have ended up in a shelter or used as a fighting dog no matter what the price tag was for him. And yes there was alot of thought about the price, and we decided to just go for it.
Its in the past and I don't regret our buy, because he is such a wonderful pup I couldn't imagin thinking back and wondering 'what ever happened to that mastiff'.
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MotherofPearl
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 09:28 PM | Reply with quote #24 |
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Let me just say that buying a mastiff is not a quick nor a cheap endeavor. If you are looking for a quality dog make sure you do your homework. There are many great breeders out there...it all depends on what you are looking for in your dog. I am not talking show or breed I am talking about what you want your PET to look like. Wrinkles or no, size in body or no, tall or on the shorter side. Figure out what you like, find the breeder of that line and go from there. It may cost you $2,000-$3,000, maybe more, but if you get are getting the dog you have been searching for, the dog that you want and you get a health tested dog with a great temprament than what more can you ask for? We wanted a mastiff for 13 years. We researched bloodlines for 3. We did not purchase on a whim. If you don't think a pet is worth $2,000 or $3,000 then don't pay it. If you want a mastiff from a quality breeder be ready, willing and able to pay now and for the life of your pet. They are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO worth it. I will never own another breed.
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orcasislandmastiffs
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 10:24 PM | Reply with quote #25 |
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Again, if looking for a pet, why not search for a rescue that fits your family???
This is my dilema, I want to eventually have a litter, I have been researching for almost 8 years, this breed. Again, as I stated before, I started in this breed at the age of 23 and started with rescue. I was in no way ready to pick a quality pup with good lines. My rescue lady then, turned out to be the best mentor over the last 8 years. She has taught me so much and I value her friendship!!
I now have 2 pups, 1 of which is show quality. I am not taking this decision lightly and don't plan to. I hope that my show girl turns out to the standards I am looking for (and they are very high). If she does well in the ring, I have a male in mind for her when she is roughly 3 years old, only if she does well in the ring and she is only 9 months old right now.
My dilema is, why can't more people start with rescue?? Is it that they don't have enough knowledge of dogs, don't want to put the time in, want the potential to breed?
I was in no rush to get a quality pup. My rescues taught me more than I could imagine.
My question is, has anyone else ever felt that rescue has taught them more than puppies?
Trish
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austinmastiff
Registered: 08/12/06
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 11:06 PM | Reply with quote #26 |
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I also started with rescues! Rescues are wonderful! They certainly taught me a lot and have been wonderful pets... My first 3 Mastiffs were rescues.
After doing Mastiff Rescue for 8 years, I thought I was ready to purchase a dog and had the knowledge to make the right decisions.
I've purchased a total of 4 dogs over the past 5 years:
1. DDB pup-turned out disasterous and bad research on my part
2. Mastiff-fantastic and caring breeder, pup had medical problem, breeder did the right thing... certainly don't regret my decision and continue to have a good relationship with breeder.
3. Mastiff adult-bad research on my part
4. Mastiff pup-another good breeder, money well spent
Every purchase has been a learning experience, good or bad. What has been the BEST learning tool for me has been doing Mastiff Rescue. By doing rescue, I've learned by other peoples' mistakes and know who all of the local byb's and puppymillers are. I've also gained a lot of knowledge of the breed by meeting SO many Mastiffs!
Even with my rescue experience, I know that I still have a lot to learn when it comes to purchasing a puppy!
Mandie
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MotherofPearl
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| Posted 12/02/07 at 11:18 PM | Reply with quote #27 |
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We were told that you always want the best bred dog no matter what. If you decide to breed you have the pedigree, if you want to show, good luck with that as it is more what you do with your dog than the pedigree which is totally and completely fair.....no breeder can promise a "show dog" as it is more the responsibility of the owner to follow through with training and confirmation but in the end if you have a pet, which is what you purchased in the beginning...you have the best bred pet you could find. Be happy...you know your dog came from a reputable breeder and you are responsible for continuing to give it a happy and healthy life....show or no show....breed or no breed. I didn't start with rescue because I was looking for a specific puppy in specific lines. I also wanted a puppy that I could bring home at a certain age for my family. We have done rescue before and still have our guy who is going to be 14 in Janurary. We wanted to start with a breed that we would have for the rest of our lives......mastiffs. Nothing wrong with that.
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Blair
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| Posted 12/03/07 at 02:39 AM | Reply with quote #28 |
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Trish,
I can answer your question about rescue easily and this is in no way meant to put them down at all. It's just what our experience has been in the past. We have three rescue dogs in our home and had four till Carly, our Black Lab mix, passed away from lesions in her brain. We had decided years ago that we wanted a Mastiff as our next pet. I don't think we will ever own anything else other than Mastiffs. However, we aren't picky people so we went looking for an available rescue. We had many encounters over a period of about six months with different rescue organizations both large and small. Two interactions stand out distinctly in my memory from the others.
The first organization we had issues with told us we were considered unacceptable due to our stating on the application that any potential dog would be crated at night. All of our dogs are crated inside at night and sleep on posture pedic baby crib mattresses. This wasn't always the case, but we went back to crates due to some dog aggression issues Carly developed during the last few months of her life due to her illness. We just stayed with it after she passed as the boys seemed to enjoy their own place and we had peace in our multi-dog house. We called the organization, which is widely known and spoken favorably of on most of the boards, and asked what the deal was. They stated to crate a mastiff at any time, to include while they are a puppy, is inhumane. I asked about safety at night with all the various hazards in any house. They stated it was inhumane for any reason. I'll keep my comments to myself on what I told them about their insane policy. Who knows; some of you may agree with them.
The second organization we found a dog at didn't work out for what I consider the stupidest of reasons (but seems widespread amongst the various rescue organizations) in that they will not adopt out of their local area for any reason whatsoever. We found what we considered the perfect match for our family. He was a mix, but really had that Mastiff look and bone about him. His temperament seemed tailor-made for our family and he was sweet as he could be. We were told by the lady we were dealing with that we had one of the best applications she had seen in the past 10 years of doing rescue, but that her board will not approve adoptions out of area. We asked her to go ahead and submit it to the board anyhow and see what happens. Ours and one other application was chosen by the board for placement. We offered to pay travel and lodging costs for an overnight trip to San Antonio for up to two people so that they could do a home visit. Two days later when we called back as instructed to work out the details of the home visit the lady we were dealing with apologized. She said they did a home visit of the other family that morning and the board went ahead with placement since they were local and suitable. She stated this was even though they considered us to be the 'better' match. Now whether that's true or she was just trying to be nice is debatable. We took it at face value and continued our search although slightly discouraged.
Now, if you're wondering why with San Antonio reportedly putting down over 50,000 dogs per year we didn't rescue a Mastiff from the local area. Believe it or not, over a six month period we simply couldn't find one. We have a friend that works over at the Fredricksburg Road Humane Society facility and we checked the Animal Control Internet board daily, but never came across anything that resembled a mastiff. We did go look at a lot of Anatolian Shepards that were listed as mastiffs, but never found anything even remotely close to a Mastiff/Mix.
So having tried to go through the process, I can tell you it was very frustrating. We were willing to travel anywhere or pay for any expenses for the rescue personnel to come to us. We actively searched and tried EVERY single day for months and months. I finally convinced Steph to buy a purebred, which was no easy feat as she is all about adopting those that are already wandering around without a home. That's when we almost made an impulse buy from a "breeder" that I am convinced we would have regretted for years to come. Needless to say, we feel that "breeder" is a BYB and not a "hobby breeder" as claimed.
Regardless of whether it is a purchase, a rescue, a purebred, a mutt, a Mastiff, or a Chihuahua - you need to have the means to pay for the unexpected - Carly was a "free" dog that over her lifespan cost us upwards of eight thousand dollars in unexpected expenses.
Rescue organizations need to ensure their policies are conducive to dogs being adopted to qualified families. Rescue should embrace out of area adoptions through co-op agreements for home visits with other rescue organizations versus restricting them. I mean why use the power of the Internet to post dogs information if most people viewing it aren't going to be allowed to adopt based simply on where they live geographically.
Now with all that being said I still have the utmost respect for those who give so much of their time and effort to rescuing wayward dogs of all breeds. I appreciate the dedicated hours they sacrifice away from their own family to help with a growing problem. It's many a long night that they spend on the road traveling to and fro and many a dollar spent out of their own pocket. It is also many a nice home they find for those dogs in search of one. I just think a lot of organizations need to look at how they're doing business and identify methods to expedite placement before good deserving families go elsewhere looking for their new pet.
Blair
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Tanksmom
Registered: 08/22/07
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| Posted 12/03/07 at 09:56 AM | Reply with quote #29 |
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Yes when our dog got hit by the car this year, there was one mastiff on the Mastiff hope registry I emailed them ten times and called several times they still to this day have never callled me back. So I dont' even no if they are legitimate or out there. I did search the rescues.
I personally already had a Mastiff but didn't want to bring another adult male in so it had to be a puppy or a female.
Also since we didn't have fencing yet that might have eliminated us, I dont' know we have four acres. Our dogs dont' roam but who knows they don't call back.
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ReneeC
Registered: 05/08/06
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| Posted 12/03/07 at 11:53 AM | Reply with quote #30 |
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The reason we didn't consider rescue is we have 2 children that were 1 and 3 at the time. I don't think they adopt to families with young children and I certainly didn't want to bring in a dog with an unknown past (to us) and possibly put my children in harms way. I would definately consider it next time though.
In a perfect world we would all pay what our dogs are "worth". Boomer is priceless to us. If I had a million, I would certainly pay it for him. Point is, when we first started looking $3,000 sounded INSANE to us. Still does.
He is from Ch. health tested, beautiful parents.
To each there own.
Just because we balked at the price doesn't mean we can't afford quality food and medical care. I would drop thousands on him if need be. Just wanted to give another buyer prospective...I know this is breeder-heavy
site and they are all worth more than words can say...
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Kiokeemastiffs
Registered: 05/06/07
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| Posted 12/03/07 at 12:43 PM | Reply with quote #31 |
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I Live in an area where you can find "mastiff" puppies advertised in local papers for any where from $300 to 2500. Some are AKC registered but most are CKC registered--which leads me to believe they are "American" mastiffs. Some of these breeders can't tell you a thing about their lines--they have done no health testing (because their dogs "don't have any health problems"), and no nothing about temperament testing. Most of these dogs used for breeding are less than pet quality.
Each time these BYB sell a puppy--it just encourages them to breed again. They keep female puppies and breed yet another generation. They show up at my house trying to buy a male to "breed " to their females. Their puppy buyers show up at my house--proud owners who want to do me a favor by breeding their male with one of my girls because he is "registered" and comes from "Champion bloodlines'".
No matter how kind you try to be--most of these folks do not want to hear that the dog they love so much is a piece of crap and I will not breed to it. Most of them get quite angry when I tell them that I will not sell them a puppy until they spay/neuter their current dog since it is not breeding quality or has an unsuitable temprament. Most have no intention of doing any health testing before they breed their current dog because it's "unneccessary"--since the breeder they bought their dog from doesn't do any testing and their dog is just "fine."
However, on the other side of the coin--let them end up with a genetic nightmare--a dog with multiple health problems or a temperament issue. Once they experience that kind of problems--they can see the benefit to careful breeding and health testing. Suddenly the price tag on your puppy is much more agreeable.
I feel that $1500 to 1800 is a fair price for a "pet Quality" puppy. If it has a lot of white (chest and toes), has a longer coat, or some other undesireable trait--I sell them at $1500. Pet quality puppies are always place with a limited registration and a spay/neuter contract--my version of the pet contract. This requirement alone can make some folks not want to buy. I have sold and placed my "show quality" puppies on a pet contract--but I will still require a limited registration and a spay/neuter agreement.
I have sold my pick of the litter for $2200 to 2500--since I ususally keep those for me--that has occured only a scant few times. Most of my puppies I sell for $1800 which I think is a fair price. I feel as a breeder, I should keep my prices where the average family can afford to buy. I see way too many people who get turned away by the price of a puppy. Awell bred puppy from health tested parents should not cost an arm and a leg.
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emarsh
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| Posted 12/03/07 at 01:43 PM | Reply with quote #32 |
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Anyone who does right by their dogs (any breed, show dogs. rescue dogs, pet dogs) knows that the initial cost is IMMATERIAL ($2000 / 10 years is $200 per year - some people spend more on beer !!!).
Why do people buy cheap, ill-bred dogs ? Because they are not vested (or invested) in them. There are often assumptions that buyers are out there looking for the ideal dog, and BYB or pet shops or morons are looking to rip them off with no health testing, lousy temperaments and rotten conformation/health etc. In reality, unfortunately, it takes two to tango, and not all purchasers of "bargain" pups are misguided souls who have been taken advantage of. Some don't want people poking around in there business (that would be the good breeder!!), some want the puppy TODAY, some want the puppy two weeks from today shipped to this airport, this old, this color, this sex. Some have been through a couple of puppies or dogs this year, and don't want to spend alot for the dog that will be replaced by a cutier/hipper pup in 6 months or so. Some are buying for the boy friend, or the kid, and since the dog is living in the basement anyway who cares, they're not going to show it..
People know what quality costs. People know if you want a BMW, you pay for a BMW. Unfortunately, lots and lots of people don't care about quality, because this puppy is NOT an investment - it is a whim, or an impulse, or some other distraction for some period of time before the dog is chained outside, or sold to some kind person who "lives on a farm", or turned over to the shelter cause they'll find a good home for it. Happy holidays (ba-humbug!).
Erika M.
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| Posted 12/03/07 at 01:59 PM | Reply with quote #33 |
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I am a big advocate of rescue dogs. Three of my four are rescues, all mutts. My first mastiff was a rescue, although based on his size he was most likely a mastiff mix. I prefer to rescue mixed breed dogs and purchase pure breds from a reputable breeder. My thought process may be right or wrong but I have several reasons for doing it that way, 1st there are rescue organizations available for any number of pure bred dogs so they have a better chance of ending up in a good home than a mutt, especially a large breed mutt, in a shelter or off the streets. 2nd if a pure bred, especially a mastiff has ended up in rescue it is most likely not from a reputable breeder. Dogs from reputable breeders do not end up in rescue, the breeder takes them back and re-homes them. These dogs are most likely the product of BYB or puppy mills and are likely to have the same genetic health and temperment issues. So, I wouldn't really seek out a rescue mastiff but if the right one came along I would take it in and hope for the best knowing that there may be serious genetic problems to deal with in the future.
I think anywhere from 1500-3500 is a fair price for a well bred mastiff out of fully testing parents. Low end for pet quality, high end for pick of the litter/show quality. With the puppy comes a support system. I know at any time I can call my breeder with a question or problem and get help.
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Tracy
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| Posted 12/03/07 at 02:40 PM | Reply with quote #34 |
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I have paid between $1500.00 to $2500.00 ( and one free one, LOL!!) and I consider it to be money well spent. My husband doesnt think that but I do. I am not a drinker, or a gambler, neither do I take lavish vacations, I dont have 2 legged kids to spend money on. This is my vice. I spent years rescuing dogs running a shelter and euthanizing perfectly healthy dogs b/c there are not enough homes for them all. I still volunteer with SSMR and I feel I have done my part, and will still do more to help those who are less fortunate than my poor housecleaning helpers.LOL!!
When average Joe citizens stops us to ask questions ( you can almost put together a flyer with the same questions and answers you always get, we are always surrounded by a crowd) I encourage them to touch the dogs pet them, and many many many pose with them for pictures with thier cameras and camera phones. But when the question comes about how much do they cost people think you are nuts for paying that much for a dog. You get the why do you spend that money for a dog, when there are homeless dogs in the sheltrs? I have done my time to help those less fortunate. People are even more surprised that you are not breeding everything you have to try and make the money back. It isnt about the money, it is about my love for the dogs, and the companionship they bring me. The money doesnt mean anything if you are paying more out of your pocket later down the road b/c your inexpensive dog with non tested parents has PRA, or dysplasia. You get what you pay for.
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Blair
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| Posted 12/04/07 at 03:25 AM | Reply with quote #41 |
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Angie,
Normally I don't look at a lot of the youtube stuff, but all of those were worth the look with the exception of maybe #40 (little long and not as informative).
It's hard to believe man's best friend is allowed to be treated that way.
Blair
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Blair Pilgrim
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| Posted 12/04/07 at 11:01 AM | Reply with quote #42 |
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After the accident with Roy out in Vegas, Tigers are cheap in Texas around 500 bucks |
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| Posted 12/04/07 at 01:00 PM | Reply with quote #43 |
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Deborah have you seen this?
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| Posted 12/04/07 at 01:40 PM | Reply with quote #44 |
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Yes isn't it beautiful--a Mother's Love |
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| Posted 12/04/07 at 01:43 PM | Reply with quote #45 |
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I just thought to myself - good instincts trump reason. |
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TeresaMarie
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 91
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| Posted 12/04/07 at 01:51 PM | Reply with quote #46 |
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I'm just your average "Jo".
I'm not a breeder. I've only been to two dog shows for a friend of mine who shows and breeds Cairns (she wanted a nice cheering section  )
Price I pay would be for pet quality. I'm one of those people that likes to reep the benifits Reputable Breeders offer the public.
I'm also from Missouri. Right in the heart of puppy mill country. The dog adds in my local paper can take up two whole pages, every Sunday. Mass "Liquidation" sales advertise this time of year with big discounts on purchased puppies t bring in the Christmass crawd and then after Christmas the sale prices drop deliberatly more.
Petstores offering puppies in cramped, wire bottom cages is what I grew up with. It was considered 'acceptable' and how things should be and to allot of people, it still is.
There is so much temptation out there to 'rescue' dogs from these Mills or petstores. Many in the rescue community will actually go to these auctions but that can backfire. If the millers think they can get even a single dime for a 'throw away' overbread, sick dog they will take it and make room for more.
So as tempting as it is. As much as I hate to pass by that poor (and affordable) puppy in the window, the cruelest thing I can think of is to actually buy him or her. Because next week, another will take its place. As long as the millers and the petstores collect cash for their 'product'.
Meanwhile, what about the parents still left in that hell-whole. A mother made to produce a litter every year will not live long, but imagine one that has to produce twice a year? The average small dog treated that way may live only 5 to 6 years, but since Mastiffs' lifespan isn't expected to be much past 10-12, I would imagine the mother's life would end about 4-5 yrs and that's only if she can continue to throw out BIG litters without needing a c-section...
C-Sections--- the Millers call them "table-top-Cs" in their little circles. Know why? Because they can sedate the bitch and perform it themselves. Just to save money and why not? If the mother dies they can just sent the puppies over to another live, nursing mother.
That's the place petstore puppies come from. So anytime I look into the eyes of a puppy behind the glass, all I can see now is generations and generations of neglect, abuse..a cycle that needs to end and the only way to end it is walk away. Just walk on. So the price, no matter how inexpensive for a petstore puppy or miller pup, is still way to high. I don't care of the puppy is advertised for $300... that's still money put into the Miller and Pestore Owners pocket, and the sheer expense of the suffering parents and generations befor them.
That's it...
Any other price, from either reputable breeders or a rescue or shelter is happily made and considered just the right price I'd pay.
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Teresa
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| Posted 12/04/07 at 06:42 PM | Reply with quote #47 |
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Here is a perfect example of what you just said. Stacy's story ended up being better than most:
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| Our Boston Terrier girl, Stacy | The picture on the left was taken the first day we got little Stacy. She had been bred every time she had come into heat since she was 6 months old. She was approximately 20 months old when we got her and had already had 3 litters. When she could no longer produce due to complications from multiple c-sections, she had to be spayed, so the puppymillers dumped her. She was eaten up with fleas and had a terrible infection in her neck. She had multiple medical issues. She had never known much more than a crate and no attention. She had no idea how to play with toys and was terrified of the grass. The look in her eyes was that of a dog with no hope. The photo on the right is Stacy after being with us for a year. She literally "took off" with a lot of love and attention. 
| Stacy again - loving her new life! |
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TeresaMarie
Registered: 01/11/07
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| Posted 12/04/07 at 07:07 PM | Reply with quote #48 |
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Teresa,
Wow, Stacy looks like a different dog from left to right. She's a very lucky.
Bostons are hot in the "Market" right now. So are King Charles Spaniels, French Bull Dogs (and their mixes with bostons, ect) and the tried and true poodle and poodle mixes.. designer breeds are out of controle (just mixes, mutts, and anything that sounds cool). Not to mention the tiny toy breeds like Chis and Yorkies
Mastiffs have been incredably popular as well as Great Danes. That is were Tritan originally came from. A Puppy Miller who slowly sold off his stock when he moved, but left the two male pups in a shed because he simply didn't want to let go. Triton remained in a shed with his brother untill he was six months old, no interaction and food tossed in twice a week.
City BYBs in St.Louis use allot of Rots and Pits even though the shelters are so overwhelmed and the counties, four of them so far, have banned Pits. Something even more unfortunate for the breeds that might even look a little "Bullish" like poorly bred Boxers (yes from Puppy Mills and BYBs too). Boxers are considered another Cash Crop but no wear new as profitable as Mastiffs, Frenchies and English Bull Dogs.
The Millers simply find out what the public's trend is and then overbreed, overbreed, overbreed to get their little slice of the pie.
And poor little Stacy... among so many more, pay the price. 20 months and three litters!
We get so many little dogs like her turned into the small rescue I volunteer for. Have a litter of Bostons coming sometime this week with skinn issues and eye infections. Puppy Broker rejects.
I learned long ago if you want a pet, look for a breeder period. A good reputable one. My family and I had decided last winter that we would love a Cockatiel. I didn't even look at the petstores. It was right to the list of reputable breeders through bird expose and word of mouth. Months later, we found the perfect woman well known among the community and today we have two very adorable, well behaved, enjoyable birds.
And it bares repeating..
The Price I am unwilling to pay is the price of generations of suffering.
The Price I'm willing to pay is the time it takes to find a reputable breeder, and the breeder's years (and sometimes generations) of knowlege or the price of a wonderful rescue group/shelter is asking to adopt.
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| Posted 12/08/07 at 02:27 AM | Reply with quote #49 |
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For Tab
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JohnandBrenna
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| Posted 12/08/07 at 05:40 AM | Reply with quote #50 |
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As far as the right price for a mastiff pup... i dont want to repeat now what was already said above so i will just say this to anyone new in mastiffs.
Do not price shop. Theres nothing cheap about mastiffs except their love. Learn all you can about the breeder and their lines...ask experts about the kennel you are choosing. (SHEEzzzz ! Hire a private investigator if you have to ! )
Expect that an exceptional puppy from a great breeder..with an excellent pedigree of proven health and temperament could be and is worth $2500, $3500,.....$4000 (depending on what caliber of a choice you're expecting)
But do not expect that by looking at high priced puppies that you are getting what you think you are paying for... or that higher priced pups are better than lower priced pups.
I have seen crummy breedings priced at 1000 and the same crummy quality going for $3200.
Basically, price will not dictate the quality, but quality does justify the price !
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Goliath Mastiffs
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