SteveOifer
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Registered: 06/01/06
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Posted 07/02/12
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#1
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Devil Dancer of Hollesley & Copernore Rab
created Medicine Man
MM
MM X Rowella, a full sister brother breeding produced..............
Hollesley Lord Ralegh
So what do we learn from such examples?
We see that inbreeding (brother X sister) produced a male in this instance, that in photo, resembled Devil Dancer more than Rab.
We also learn, that saturation within a pedigree of any one particular dog, will also saturate the parent's genes of that dog as well.
So the combination that produced MM may not throw MM's just because a pedigree is full of MM's.
Genetic linkage can also produce forms that resemble MM's parents, since the pedigree is stuffed with those factors as well. In rogues case, Rab did not imprint as well as Devil Dancer. In fact, in many instances, we rarely get the dog we strive for (in this case MM) since the forces that came together in producing that unique form are now all mixed, despite the multitude of appearances of MM in a given pedigree.
The wish is to saturate the pedigree in the hope of obtaining another MM, but what actually happens, is an increase in the variables that both Devil Dancer & Rab brought to the original table!
We then either get a copy of a parent in the first generation (e.g. Rogue) of close inbreeding, or we get diluted variations of the MM form, due to recombined genetic factors, which did not create the original click of MM's genetics.
Just like mixing black & white paint won't deliver a black & white color, as you will get grey, combining MM genes in a well saturated pedigree, will rarely deliver the form you might expect from such linebred/inbred examples. At best, if you are lucky enough to have a dog that throws itself repeatedly, you see the form you desire pop up in various litters, using different bitches, but beyond that, you dilute the mix over time and lose the original form you so much admired.
What many breeders who believe in linebreeding/inbreeding seem to forget, is that a close inbreeding, is supposed to show you what's there in the genetic construct. It's supposed to show great variability, not uniformity, especially if there is diversity within the genetics, that exist in the dogs that you've combined!
Uniformity, through linebreeding/inbreeding, can only develop after a number of generations of selective culling (not killing) of those dogs, that show the greatest variabilities of what you desire.
In other words, you keep & breed the one's that make the cut and remove those who do not! You must also inbreed further, in order to keep removing those unwanted elements that are still present, even in the phenotypes that looked correct!
At this point, the pedigree is meaningless, as you are basing your decisions on visual references, not just impressive names on paper.
Getting back to MM, if too much MM appears, you may get cobby forms and by saturating a pedigree with MM, you get a greater chance of acquiring that cobby trait and passing it down to future generations, even if not present in the phenotypes you've produced.
To clarify my use of MM, it's done only because he is in so many pedigrees and known to most who follow these threads. I have no bone to pick with him, or those breeders that have used him for their programs.
Just trying to make a point, regarding strength in numbers, which may actually be a deficit, in some instances, when a popular sire is flagged many times within a given pedigree.
I've seen some great dogs that clicked, due to the special way their genes combined and I've seen attempts at duplications fail miserably, because of some of the factors mentioned above.
Producing a great strain within the breed is a difficult, if not an almost impossible task, given the time, money & dedication needed to pull off such a project.
Flyers will come & go and some will be very memorable indeed!
In any breed, which does not breed true, or one that has a great deal of variability in type, here & abroad, should get us thinking about solidifying & correcting that issue as best we can and creating a game plan to help make that happen.
__________________
For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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SteveOifer
~ TOP SUPREME POWER POSTER~
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 23,533
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Posted 07/02/12
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Reply with quote
#2
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 Rowella & MM
__________________
For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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SteveOifer
~ TOP SUPREME POWER POSTER~
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 23,533
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Posted 07/02/12
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Reply with quote
#3
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Uniformity, through linebreeding/inbreeding, can only develop after a number of generations of selective culling (not killing) of those dogs, that show the greatest variabilities of what you don't desire.
Corrected statement***
__________________
For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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