Qaletaqa

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 368
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| Posted 06/16/08 at 05:13 AM | Reply with quote #1 |
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Ok, Marge can chime in on this too, If she would tell about the calls someone received. I thought maybe a prank, BUT low and behold, I got a call the other day from a disturbed lady whose son has 2 12 weeks old pups. He goes to a vet in Galion Ohio, Who was told he has to dock the tail off his 2 pups or it will cause them to become dysplastic.
This is twice in less or so then a month a vet has said such. I will try to see if it is the same vet. But can you imagine 
I sent them to another vet, and told them to run from this vet do not walk. __________________ Danielle B |
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Maureen

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| Posted 06/16/08 at 08:30 AM | Reply with quote #2 |
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That's as bad as the vet that removed the fat pad off a bitch because he said it was too big. __________________ Maureen |
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Sandragon

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| Posted 06/16/08 at 09:27 AM | Reply with quote #3 |
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You may want to look into filing a complaint with the BOVM. Just like a regular doctor they have to be held accountable! __________________ Lorie
Sandragon Mastiffs
Where Mastiffs and Dragons play!
http://sandragonmastiff.com
This post may not be forwarded, copied, transmitted, or reprinted without the permission of the sender! |
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augusta
Registered: 04/10/08
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| Posted 06/16/08 at 10:06 AM | Reply with quote #4 |
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hi,
one of those calls was placed to lucie fainsbert, i ended up calling the owner back.
we said the same thing - RUN!
v |
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| Posted 06/16/08 at 10:26 AM | Reply with quote #5 |
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I agree with Lorie! |
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| Posted 06/16/08 at 12:35 PM | Reply with quote #6 |
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I do not like it, I have to band the tails of sheep but because they get diseases if you do not. They must have a Tet shot or the sheep can die from it......you can tell it bothers them and is painful for a few weeks, and it turns black and then drops off.
Tail Docking Tails are usually docked on 2-10 day old puppies, without either general or local anesthesia. If the procedure is done by a veterinarian, the tail is clamped a short distance from the body, and the portion of the tail outside the clamp is cut or torn away. Many breeders dock their pups themselves using a method that has been proven to be far more painful - "banding," or tying off the tail. This stops the blood supply, which results in dry gangrene. The dead portion of the tail usually falls off about three days later. This can be likened to slamming your finger in a car door - and leaving it there. Two cases involving home tail docking were recently reported by the Michigan Humane Society. One woman was tried and found guilty of cruelty for allowing rubber bands to become embedded in the tails of four puppies. In a similar abuse case, a four-week-old Rottweiler mix puppy's tail had been improperly rubber banded. His infected tail had to be amputated. Puppies undergoing any method of tail-docking squeal and cry, yet advocates assert that the newborn's nervous system is unable to feel the pain. They point out that puppies immediately crawl to their mothers to nurse. But don't all hurt or frightened children immediately cry for their mommy? Moreover, research indicates that suckling causes the release of endorphins, the body's natural pain relievers, which may be a more realistic way to view the puppies' desire to nurse. Docking advocates ignore the fact that a newborn puppy simply is not capable of a wide range of responses. It is very difficult to accurately assess the degree of pain a newborn is experiencing. Just because a puppy is not actively vocalizing does not mean she isn't feeling any pain. The pro-docking lobby claims that since puppies are less developed at birth (altricial) than, say, fawns or colts - which stand, walk and run within a very short time after birth (precocial) - their nervous systems are less sensitive, therefore tail docking is not painful. However, it is well documented in the human medical literature that newborn humans, who are also altricial, do feel pain - and neonatal pain management is taken seriously. "Clinicians believe that infants can experience pain much like adults, that [hospitalized] infants are exposed daily to painful procedures, and that pain protection should be provided . even very prematurely born infants respond to pain," states one report from the Department of Pediatrics at the Washington University School of Medicine. Proponents of tail docking claim that their favorite breeds "often" have their tails damaged while hunting. No statistics or percentages of dogs so damaged are given. However, explicit photos of such injuries are prominently displayed in their literature and web sites. This vague potential risk for future tail injury theoretically justifies docking the tail of every single puppy of traditionally docked breeds. It does not matter whether any particular puppy will ever be used for hunting or any other activities that carry a significant risk of tail injury. One study of 12,000 canine cases over seven years found only 47 cases of tail injuries from any cause, or about 0.003% of dogs seen at that hospital. Another survey reviewed 2,000 canine emergency cases, and turned up only three tail injuries - all of them complications from docking. One certainly wonders about the validity of the "tail injury" argument, when sporting breeds such as Labrador Retrievers, Golden Retrievers, Irish, English and Gordon Setters, Beagles, Foxhounds, and Pointers do not have their tails docked, while Vislas, Weimeraners, German Shorthaired Pointers, and Springer, Brittany and Cocker Spaniels do. Spaniels have long, heavy, furry ears that appear more hazardous in thorny, brushy terrain or water than a long tail. Spaniels are also notorious for severe, chronic ear infections. Does it make any sense that they are allowed to keep their pendulous ears, but not their tails? The tail injury argument also doesn't explain why Rottweilers, Dobermans, Poodles, Schnauzers and Old English Sheepdogs (as well as Australian Shepherds unfortunate enough to be born with tails instead of without), routinely have their tails docked. These working and non-sporting breeds aren't running around in the brush and woods. Old English and Aussie breeders might offer that a tail is a liability around livestock. But why isn't this so, then, for Border Collies, Shetland Sheepdogs, Australian Cattle Dogs, Great Pyrenees, or other herding breeds? The argument seems very thin when examined logically. |
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| Posted 06/16/08 at 12:39 PM | Reply with quote #7 |
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For the Mastiff I see no benefits in doing it except for the owner's comfort, or if a severe case of happy tail comes up.
Pain Felt By Puppiesby Prof. Dr R. FritschI have been asked by the German Kennel Club to give a professional opinion on the following questions: - WILL THE REMOVAL OF THE TAIL AND DEW CLAWS WITHOUT ANAESTHETIC ON A FOUR DAY OLD PUPPY CAUSE CONSIDERABLE PAIN?
- IS IT NECESSARY FROM THE VETERINARY POINT OF VIEW TO SHORTEN THE TAIL OR AMPUTATE THE DEW CLAWS OF CERTAIN BREEDS OF DOGS?
The docking of tails and the removal of dew claws in puppies less then four days old without anaesthetic is not connected with any serious pain in such a way that it cannot be allowed from the point of view of the protection of animals. The reason for this is (there are two expressions in German for which there is no English equivalent: Nestfluchter which means a young bird or young animal which very soon will leave its nest or its mother and therefore will have to find its own food, and Nesthockern which means a young animal that stays for a long time in the nest with its mother and is fed by her). The new born puppy belongs to the Nesthockern, in contrast with the horse, cow, sheep, pig and goat which are regarded as Nestfluchter. The animals in the Nesthockern group are born relatively immature, completely naked, blind, deaf, very immobile and very helpless. Their Nervous system at birth is not even fully developed. There are still cell divisions in the brain and some of the nervous threads are not fully developed. In psychological tests, it has been determined that the time between the nervous impulse and reaction (chronaxie) takes 3-4 times longer than it would in an adult. After about 10-14 days, when the animals eyes are opened (until then it has been more like an embryo) it is possible to determine the normal value of the impulse. In 1941, Volkhov determined that animals, at this period of life, had very little feeling of pain. The conscious feeling of pain is still not very likely at that age. Schmidker wrote in his doctorate in 1951 about the feeling of pain in newborn puppies: Incomplete development of the nervous system at the time of birth and the very high chronaxie value in connection with the fact that the animal is not able to react effectively to pain, gives us every reason to believe that the actual feeling of pain is very low in the newborn group of mammals (dogs). In other words, at this age and biological condition, it would have no absolute meaning to talk about pain. You therefore do not have to worry or fear that the dog will be made to suffer pain or psychological pain, if the tail has been docked or the dew claws removed, in the first few days after birth. It is completely different though, with the Nestfluchter (animals which leave their nest or mother just after birth). In these animals, the nervous system is fully developed just after the moment of birth. All senses that serve to get rid of enemies and pain are fully developed. One can neither from physiological knowledge nor from just observation, say that these young animals feel a lot less pain than adults. It would therefore be a contradiction in the law, for the Protection of Animals, to permit the shortening or docking of tails in pigs and lambs without anaesthetic, because they have a fully developed threshold of pain, and, at the same time, forbid the docking of dogs. It is absolutely certain that the docking of tails on small lambs and pigs and also the castration of young pigs, goats and calves during their first days of life, will cause considerable pain if done without anaesthetic. However, from the point of view of the docking of dogs, whose nervous system is not fully developed during the first few days of life, is completely acceptable from the point of view of the protection of animals. The removal of dew claws is necessary in order to avoid later damages and illnesses. It is also recommended to dock the tails in breeds which have long thin, weak and sparsely coated tails, in order to avoid later sickness and damage. At the same time tails should be docked in breeds that are used in such a way that there is a risk of injury to a tail e.g. hunting dogs. It is beneficial to avoid painful injuries and therefore in the interest of the Prevention Of Cruelty to animals. The dew claw is the ¹rudimentary first toe. They are often injured and the nail can grow into the skin causing considerable inflammation. The dog can easily catch them on different objects because they just hang on the side of their paws, a nonfunctioning object and can therefore damage themselves quite seriously. It is therefore in the interest of the law to recommend that these claws are removed as early as possible. Their removal is best done in the first week with a little clip with scissors. The dogs tail on the other hand, whether it be in kennels or around the home, is in constant danger of damage be being hit against hard objects like walls, fences, tables, chair legs, radiators and of being trapped in doors. these injuries usually result in sores at the tip of the tail, which do not heal well because there is poor blood circulation in this part of the tail. By licking and chewing, the dog makes the condition worse and the skin and tissue will die. These conditions of necrosis of the tip of the tail is often seen in Great Danes and Dalmatians. German Shepherds are often seen in veterinary surgeries. This can sometimes be treated with partial amputation but secondary problems can occur in the healing process because the very poor blood supply is not conductive to this. This actually makes it necessary to amputate the tail several times before the healing process is achieved. Hunting dogs are in great danger of damaging their tails when thrashing through thick undergrowth and young forest. Only tails that are thick and covered with long hair are protected, such as those of the Wolf and Fox. Apart from the dangers that the dog is constantly confronted with in the human environment (as well as the fact that they have less hair than the wild dog) many breeds have a very lively temperament which often cause tail tip damage in the course of their exuberance, eg. and undocked Boxer will constantly be subject to injury when using its tail when he express happiness. As far as the behaviour of dogs is concerned, I can not see that their ability to express happiness should in any was be altered by the docking of the tail. From the veterinary point of view, therefore, there is absolutely no reason why the banning of the docking of dogs tails should be beneficial to them. In actual fact, it would be detrimental to their well-being if docking was abolished. Tail docking protects the dog as it is done to avoid problems with tail injuries as subsequent painful treatment that would often occur. It is called Prevention! Absolute credit for the above article is given to Prof. DR R. Fritsch, Leader of Clinic of Veterinary Surgeons, Justus-Lieberg University, to The German Kennel Club. ¹ = from The Oxford School Dictionary a. elementary; undeveloped. [L. rudimentum] |
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| Posted 06/16/08 at 12:40 PM | Reply with quote #8 |
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| Posted 06/16/08 at 12:42 PM | Reply with quote #9 |
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 The Case for Tail Docking The docking of dogs tails is a practice which has been carried out for centuries in order to avoid tail damage, for hygiene and other reasons. Today there are over fifty traditionally docked breeds which are recognised by various Kennel Clubs. But docking has, in recent years, come under the scrutiny of the veterinary establishment, which has condemned the practice as an "unjustified mutilation". Breeders, dog owners and many veterinary surgeons disagree with this view. They believe that if docking ceased, dogs would suffer. Docking, they say, is a perfectly humane procedure when properly carried out, and one, which prevents far more distress than it causes. It is, like neutering, simply a practical animal management technique which should remain available to dog breeders and owners. The UK Legal Position Tail docking has historically been undertaken largely by dog breeders. However, in 1991, the UK government amended the Veterinary Surgeons Act, thereby prohibiting the docking of dog's tails by lay persons from 1 July 1993. Now, only veterinary surgeons are, by law, allowed to dock. However, following the Government move, the Council of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons in November 1992, ruled docking to be unethical, "unless for therapeutic or acceptable prophylactic reasons". Furthermore, the circumstances in which the Royal College considered prophylactic docking to be acceptable were so hedged with conditions as to make the routine docking of puppies by veterinary surgeons extremely difficult. Vets who continue to dock risk disciplinary action, including being struck off the professional register. Back to index Is the abolition of docking demanded by Europe?There is no European Community Directive or Regulation against docking. The only International Treaty which mentions docking is the 1987 European Convention for the Protection of Pet Animals, established by the advisory grouping of Western European States, the Council of Europe. Although it calls for the prohibition of docking, it specifically recognises the rights of nations which otherwise accept the Convention, to reserve their position on the issue. The treaty therefore accepts that docking is not a clear cut matter. After 9 years, only 11 out of the 39 states have signed and ratified the treaty, not including the United Kingdom. Five of those, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Germany and Portugal have reserved their position on docking. (Correct as at 18 October 1996) Back to index Why Are Dog's Tails Docked?1. To avoid tail damageA number of working gundog breeds have to hunt game through heavy vegetation and thick brambles, where their fast tail action can easily lead to torn and bleeding tails which are painful and extremely difficult to treat. Docking the end of the tail eliminates the risk of injury. Working terriers are docked for the same reason. In addition, terriers which are bred to hunt below ground for purposes such as fox control, have their tails docked to a length which is more practical when working in a confined space. Other non-working breeds which have an enthusiastic tail action, are also liable to damage their tails, even in the home. Since docking was banned in Sweden in 1989, there has been a massive increase in tail injuries amongst previously docked breeds. Within the 50 undocked Pointer litters registered in that year with the Swedish Kennel Club, 38% of dogs suffered tail injury before they were 18 months old and in 1991, the number of individuals with tail injures had increased to 51% of the group. 2. For reasons of hygieneLong haired, thick coated breeds like the Yorkshire Terrier and Old English Sheepdog are docked to avoid the hair around the base of the tail becoming fouled by faeces. Even with constant grooming and washing, such fouling is unpleasant. If allowed to get out of hand, it can lead to severe problems of hygiene, or even flystrike and subsequent infestation by maggots. Hygiene problems can be greatly reduced or eliminated altogether by docking. 3. To maintain breed standardsBreeds which have been docked over many generations have been selected for specific qualities of build and conformation, but not for tail length, shape or carriage. If left undocked, it is unlikely that the best dogs would carry good tails. In seeking to maintain the quality of the breeds, breeders would therefore be left with a diminished number of suitable sires and dams. The genetic pool would be reduced, greatly increasing the risk of hereditary diseases taking hold. Some breeds could even disappear for ever. Back to index How is docking carried out ?There are two methods of docking. The majority of breeders used the technique known as "banding", in which a ligature, normally an orthodontic band, was placed over the end of the puppies tail at 24-96 hours old. This effectively cuts off the blood supply to the end of the tail, which comes away within 3 days. Most vets used to cut the tail with surgical scissors. There is generally no need for stitches, but on occasions these can be used, especially with the larger breeds. Nowadays in the UK, vets are more than likely to use the banding method. Back to index Is docking cruel?Docking is carried out when puppies are tiny. Their eyes are not yet open and long experience indicates that carried out correctly, the procedure causes no pain or discomfort. Indeed, some puppies which are docked whilst they are asleep, do not even wake up. After docking, puppies will immediately return to their dam to feed, and there is no evidence that development or weight gain is in any way arrested by the docking procedure. Nor does a dog which has been docked as a puppy have any problems with balance or communication. If, however, tail damage occurs during adulthood and docking has to be carried out for therapeutic reasons, normally under anaesthetic, a dog can be seriously distressed and the healing process can be painful and protracted. Back to index Do dog breeders want the law changed? All responsible breeders consider the welfare of dogs to be of the utmost importance. They recognise that docking should be carried out by competent, experienced individuals such as veterinary surgeons. They therefore wish to see vets free to continue docking, without the threat of action for professional misconduct hanging over them. But, just as farmers in the U.K. are permitted to dock lambs, breeders believe that there is a strong case for suitably qualified lay people to be authorised by law to dock puppies. The Council of Docked Breeds has therefore proposed the introduction of a docking Register listing those who would be trained and certified in docking. Breeders and owners maintain that, far from improving the lot of docked breeds, the effective abolition of docking would lead to a crisis in animal welfare. This article was originally published on The Council of Docked Breeds website. Published here with permission. |
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| Posted 06/16/08 at 12:50 PM | Reply with quote #10 |
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I doubt the Vet could be held responsible in his opinion that this would benefit the owner and dog. It is a shame he can get so many people to do this for no good reason in the Mastiff Breed.
Many people take the dew claws off the Mastiff for just the simple purpose of a smooth line for the ring. |
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slobber2
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| Posted 06/16/08 at 01:06 PM | Reply with quote #11 |
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HI , Yes i heard it when i was in Bucks :>) Laughed my Arss off :>) I mean how stupid is that ?? No one ever said where the Vet was tho :>)
Where do they find em ?? :>)
Marge
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Qaletaqa

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 368
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| Posted 06/16/08 at 03:36 PM | Reply with quote #12 |
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HORIZON In Galion Ohio, Stay away !!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL __________________ Danielle B |
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neomom

Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 418
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| Posted 06/16/08 at 06:14 PM | Reply with quote #13 |
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This is interesting. At one time it was felt that premature infants did not feel pain because their nervous system was immature. Surgeries were even performed without anesthetic. It has since been proven that indeed they feel pain and its probably more intense than full term babies. It takes longer for the pain to reach the brain due to immature myelination of the nerves but they have all the biochemical markers of extreme pain and stress. Expression of pain can be a "shutting down" type of response rather than activity such as crying and thrashing, although they will do that initially.
I can't beleive puppies don't feel pain. __________________ Wendy |
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| Posted 06/16/08 at 09:19 PM | Reply with quote #14 |
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To Participate in AKC shows some breeds are required to dock the tail, crop the ears, etc. Now we must remember that AKC requires this because the Breed Club sets the Standards of their Breed.
If the members of that particular club no longer feel it is a benefit to their club ........it is the members of that club that must change the standards .......not AKC.
Some States have tried to ban the practice but New York's Legislation shelved the idea in 2006 due to the overwhelming opposition to it by dog fanciers. Here is the list of Countries with positions on it.
[edit] Legal status by country- Argentina: Unrestricted
- Australia: Banned in all states and territories as of June 2004. Restricted to veterinarians, for welfare, not cosmetic.[8]
- Austria: Banned as of 1 January 2005 according to the "Bundestierschutzgesetz" §7.1
- Belgium: Banned as pf 1 January 2006
- Brazil: Banned for cosmetic purposes.
- Canada: Unrestricted
- Chile: Unrestricted
- Croatia: Banned
- Cyprus: Banned in 1991[9]
- Czech Republic: Banned
- Denmark: Banned as of 1 June 1996, with exceptions for five gun dog breeds
- England: Banned as of 2006 - can only be done by vet when beneift outweighs risk to animal.
- Estonia: Banned as of 2001
- Finland: Banned in 1992. Exception on tail docking, although banned on dog shows.[1]
- France: Banned as of 4 August 2003
- Germany: Banned on 1 May 1992, with exceptions for working gun dogs.[1]
- Greece: Banned in 1991[9]
- Hungary: Banned
- Iceland: Banned as of 2001
- India: Unrestricted
- Indonesia: Unrestricted
- Ireland: Banned as of January 2008
- Israel: Banned for cosmetic purposes in 2000.[1]
- Latvia: Banned
- Lithuania: Banned
- Luxembourg: Banned in 1991[9]
- Mauritius: Unrestricted
- Mexico: Unrestricted
- Netherlands: Banned as of 1 September 2001
- New Zealand: Unrestricted
- Nepal: Unrestricted
- Norway: Docking banned since 1987
- Philippines: Unrestricted
- Portugal: Unrestricted
- Russia : Unrestricted
- Republic of China (Taiwan): Unrestricted.
- Republic of Ireland: Unrestricted for dogs, banned for horses unless deemed medically necessary by a vet
- Slovakia: Banned as of 1 January 2003
- South Africa: Banned as of June 2007
- Sweden: Banned as of 1989. Apparent increase in tail injuries reported among working dogs after ban.[1]
- Switzerland: Banned as of 1 July 1981 for the ears and 1988 for the tail[1]
- Turin and Rome, Italy: Banned
- United Kingdom: Banned in England and Wales, with some exceptions for working dogs. Banned in Scotland with no exceptions. Unrestricted in Northern Ireland.
- United States: Unrestricted (some states, including New York,[10] and Vermont have considered bills to make the practice illegal)
- Virgin Islands: Banned as of 2005
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SteveOifer

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| Posted 06/16/08 at 10:18 PM | Reply with quote #15 |
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Tail docking had personal practical purposes, geared for owners more so than for the dog's benefit.
Children could injure their eyes with a tail that was active, as well as many gentlemen who have experience a tail to the genitalia....ouch!
The natural result is a shortened tail, which eliminates any happenstance, but the length of tail is shortened on many breeds, taking into account the dog's tail as being a natural protective covering for their own reproductive areas.
__________________ For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS! |
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Qaletaqa

Registered: 04/04/07
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| Posted 06/16/08 at 11:09 PM | Reply with quote #16 |
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The only time I have ever heard of tail docking in a non docked breed is. example Danes, Happy tail syndrome where the tail easily splits, or due to injury.
But for this vet to make a claim of, preventing dysplasia. There is nothing you can cut off a dog, going to prevent genetics, or injury. Period.
This guy needs his license pulled to state such a false statement of health that is misleading and damaging.
From my understanding he is another origin, maybe instead of ox tail soup, he is hoping for mastiff soup LOL Yeah yeah, sick I know. But nothing can make me fathom this vets thinking.
__________________ Danielle B |
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| Posted 06/17/08 at 08:35 AM | Reply with quote #17 |
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Sorry Danielle I did not see this part:
But for this vet to make a claim of, preventing dysplasia. There is nothing you can cut off a dog, going to prevent genetics, or injury. Period. Is there a way we can get his fax, email or address and bombard his office and the Vet Board of Ohio with our concerns? The MCOA should be notified since it is not in the Standards of how a Mastiff should look and it does not prevent dysplasia.
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emarsh
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| Posted 06/17/08 at 09:23 AM | Reply with quote #18 |
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Accurate historical info on tail docking (and no mention of eye goggles for the kids or codpieces for the gents!)
http://www.animallaw.info/articles/dduscroppingdocking.htm#III "II. History Tail docking and ear cropping date to the early Romans, who believed that the practices prevented rabies.11 During the European Middle Ages, through the end of the 18th century, Lamarck's theory of acquired characteristics12 was widely accepted. As such, people believed that by docking the tails of the parents, "the new born puppies would look like their parents" and also exhibit short tails.13 In addition, long-tailed or floppy-eared dogs used for hunting, fighting, or watching flocks were at a greater risk of injury associated with those activities. As such, tails were docked and ears cropped to reduce the number of places another dog or other animal could grab. The owners of working dogs often believed that tail docking reduced a dog's maneuverability, thereby discouraging the dog from chasing game,14 while the other dog owners often believed that tail docking resulted in a stronger back and increased speed.15 Finally, various tax schemes may have accounted for the proliferation of tail docking. In some areas, dogs used for work were not taxed, so the owners of such dogs would dock the tails to indicate that the dog was used for work and not subject to tax.16 In other areas, farmers were taxed according to the length of their dogs' tails, so docking was used to reduce the tax liability.17 Moreover, sport hunting was considered to be reserved for the wealthy nobility, and it was believed that only long-tailed dogs were suitable for hunting. As such, the owners of long-tailed dogs were required to pay a high tax and tail docking became a practice of the commoners.18" Erika M.
__________________ Erika M.
http://www.kyniska.com |
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lplnktt

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| Posted 06/17/08 at 09:55 AM | Reply with quote #19 |
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I am constantly amazed! __________________ Laura
Sir Thor CDX,RE,CGC,TT
Midwest's Lady Sif Our Tiger Lily CD,RE, CGC TT, TDI
Keely Jo "bad dog" (mole dog) |
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kiokeemastiffs1

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| Posted 06/17/08 at 11:41 AM | Reply with quote #20 |
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Just look up where he went to Vet school--I want to know. You can bet he wasn't in the top 1/2 of his class.
Dock the tail to prevent Hip dysplasia???--please tell me the people heard him wrong. But if he has said it more than once--he is a self-proclaimed idiot. __________________ Cathy (Catie) Arney
"Stupid people shouldn't breed--themselves or dogs." Myself
"Stupid is as Stupid does.." Forrest Gump
"If you can't take listening--you got to take feeling." Johhny "Pop" Fisher (Mitch's dad)
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment." UnKnown ( but I like it)
http://kiokeemastiffscom.blogspot.com |
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Qaletaqa

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| Posted 06/17/08 at 12:25 PM | Reply with quote #21 |
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I assure you they did not hear him wrong, they were very upset. We are sending them over to our vet. Since they are close to our area.
Again, Once we have the documentation of clinic. I will post it. All I know right now is, Horizon Clinic in Galion Ohio. __________________ Danielle B |
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