Flacabearyum
Registered: 06/13/12
Posts: 3
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| Posted 06/14/12 at 01:24 PM | Reply with quote #1 |
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| We recently re-homed Riggs who is 14 months old. We have had her for only a month and a half. Her previous owners are friends of mine and live in the suburbs of Indianapolis. They already had 3 bull terriers and recently had a baby and decided that Riggs was no longer compatible with their family. Riggs was used to roaming free in the backyard and was walked on a leash maybe once a week. We live in Philadelphia and while Riggs has been adjusting to us really well and is perfect in the house, she is still acclimating to the noises and people of the city. Overall, she is a sensitive and shy English Mastiff and gets scared of noises, objects on the street, and people, which I think is normal for a dog that is brand new to the city. When she does start to panic, we have her sit and wait until she calms down or if she shies away from an object on the street, we lead her back to it so she can sniff it.
She does very well with other dogs in the dog park and enjoys going there. We take her to the dog park everyday to practice her socialization with other dogs and their owners. She has made progress with humans in the dog park as well as meeting people that come to our house. She eventually warms up to them.
During the first 3 weeks or so, we had no problems taking her for walks, going out the front door. She did have a couple of scares where we opened the door and a dog was walking by and the dog lunged up the stairs. After that, she started to sit and lie down and we would have to wait 5 or so minutes before she decided to go out. She would then walk okay, but if there was lots of activity on the street, she would be pretty scared during the walk to the park.
After another incident while trying to go out the front door (a guy dragging a wagon down the sidewalk and lots of people passing while trying to go out of the door), she now refuses to go out the front door even with both my husband and I coaxing her out with treats. So, we switched to taking her out of the easement (the alley in between our rowhome and the neighbor's home). She walked out of there fine the first couple of times, but now has a lot of trouble coming out. We usually have to wait 15 minutes or more for her to come, dropping treats. She comes to the edge of the easement door and then runs away. This happens several times before she decides to come out. When we finally do get her out on the sidewalk. She has no problem walking with both of us or with my husband, but when I try to take her myself, we round the corner and she sits down or lies down and refuses to move.
I am not sure what to do in this situation as I have tried tugging the collar, being firm, walking around her, coaxing her with treats, walking her back towards the house a little (the only time she will move because she just wants to go back to the house) and then redirecting her in the direction I want to go, but that doesn't work. My friend, the previous owner, says she is trying to be dominating. I am not sure if she is testing me or if she is scared since her vibe when lying down is somewhat as if she has shut down. Should I use a choke collar to give her a hard correction when lying down? Any ideas would be great.
Thanks, Alina |
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brindlelove
Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 278
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| Posted 06/14/12 at 02:06 PM | Reply with quote #2 |
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My only fear with you getting a choke collar is that you don't have a history with the dog and while you are forming a bond YOU are not there in HER eyes yet. She MIGHT lash out if truly scared and then provoked. If it's that she is genuinely scared than it's because of you. She doesn't feel as if you can protect her (oddly enough) and are not in charge. Because of this she wants to flee to her SAFE ZONE (the house). I feel as if they read our emotions and then magnify them. You will have to be more assertive not with her but your surroundings. Just walk her as if you have been doing it all her life and there is nothing new or out of the ordinary about it. See you start of with treats which automatically raises her suspicions. These dogs are smarter than you think. Mine gets ice out of the ice maker and has figured out how to open doors. You bring treats near the door and they know whats next. I would suggest spending more one on one time with her. Give her some love, message her, roll around with her (not that you don't already but do it just the two of you). While messaging her you could work out any dominance issues. Think of it like this; if I suspect any dominance issues with me at all what I do is while doing the message (this is how I have done it with all my previous dogs and it works for me but might not for anyone else) I will work them into passive positions and then DOMINATE through message. PIN them down while rubbing pressure points. Throw a growl or two in for good measure. Before you know it they will be as submissive as you could of ever hoped for and she will TRUST YOU as you have shown here that you are in charge. Something else you could try that I do is when we are alone and we hear something or something gets their attention don't automatically correct them. They are dog's and as such should act like dog's. I walk mine on a 6' leash so when she gets doggish she will pull all the slack on the leash (I walk her in a harness) and them FREEZE!!! While she is fixated I walk up behind her and will whisper something to the effect of "what's that" in a really inquisitive child like voice and she will explode with energy (well for a mastiff that means Bark once or twice and wag tail vigorously all the while keeping the least as taught as she could without me having to correct. She actually monitors the pressure on some level. These dogs are SMART). All this time I scan what she is fixated on. I only do this is nothing is there (like a leaf fell and made some noise that spooked her). I let her ACT LIKE A DOG and then bring her over (much as you do already but I add a level of play to make it seem fun to check out new things and also train her to protect on commend but that is a whole different thread) to see that nothing was there and thus no reason to be freaked out. In short just OWN the situation not act it and not feel it. They will respond to what ever you do and in the end it's your dog and I can only tell you what has worked for me (did this with a Rotti, mastiff x terrier, and now my english mastiff) and I can say that Bella is MY shadow. __________________ You know you own a mastiff when youre dog weighs more than your wife! |
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brindlelove
Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 278
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| Posted 06/14/12 at 02:16 PM | Reply with quote #3 |
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Also remember that for the oast 14 months she was with a different pack. Mastiffs are LOYAL dogs and this is all new to her and she is just starting to get used to it. Remember that the last time she was dragged outside she left for good. Now you take her out and there is commotion coupled with the fact that she really doesn't feel comfortable with you or the situation and you get what you got. They are slow to do anything and it just might be a matter of time before she warms up to her new situation but she will as long as you make the extra effort. __________________ You know you own a mastiff when youre dog weighs more than your wife! |
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brindlelove
Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 278
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| Posted 06/14/12 at 02:16 PM | Reply with quote #4 |
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Also remember that for the past 14 months she was with a different pack. Mastiffs are LOYAL dogs and this is all new to her and she is just starting to get used to it. Remember that the last time she was dragged outside she left for good. Now you take her out and there is commotion coupled with the fact that she really doesn't feel comfortable with you or the situation and you get what you got. They are slow to do anything and it just might be a matter of time before she warms up to her new situation but she will as long as you make the extra effort. __________________ You know you own a mastiff when youre dog weighs more than your wife! |
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CChauncey

SUPER POWER POSTER>FORUM SUPPORTER
Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 4,024
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| Posted 06/14/12 at 02:31 PM | Reply with quote #5 |
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JMHO but I with time, patience Riggs will begin to feel more stable/settled and the door thing will resolve itself too. I wouldn't try to force the issue, encourage it for sure but trying to move a mountain of mastiff is a losing battle and may backfire from what you're trying to accomplish. Keep trying to make the trips outside fun with lots of encouragements and don't anticipate problems or Riggs will likely do her best to fullfil those expectations. If you have another dog or a friend with a dog that you can use as a companion to walk inside/outside....that might help too. Good luck & pls don't give up on her or yourselves either. __________________ Cindy
It is wiser to find out than suppose.
- More Maxims of Mark, Johnson, 1927 |
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Flacabearyum
Registered: 06/13/12
Posts: 3
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| Posted 06/14/12 at 02:42 PM | Reply with quote #6 |
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| Thank you for all of these suggestions. I have the opportunity to really spend a lot of one on one time with her this weekend as my husband will be out of town. Hopefully, we will have some successful walks. Just one more question, what do I do if she refuses to walk but I need her to go the park in order to go to the bathroom? We don't have a yard, just a small enclosed patio, but I believe she thinks its an extension of the house and won't go to the bathroom there. Should I try and if she refuses, come back to the house and try again later? or should I just wait until she really let's me know that she needs to go? She hasn't had any messes in the house and seems to be able to hold her pee and bowel movements for a long while, but again, I don't want her holding it so long that it does any damage. Thanks again for the quick replies. |
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CChauncey

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Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 4,024
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| Posted 06/14/12 at 02:46 PM | Reply with quote #7 |
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If she's indicating that she needs to go out, take advantage of that opportunity for sure along with you deciding that a walk out side is a good thing. Repitition is a good thing! __________________ Cindy
It is wiser to find out than suppose.
- More Maxims of Mark, Johnson, 1927 |
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WalnutCrest

Registered: 07/10/09
Posts: 747
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| Posted 06/14/12 at 02:51 PM | Reply with quote #8 |
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| Another idea ... instead of going for a walk every time you leave your house, maybe you could take some time this weekend leaving your house and getting in your car ... sitting there for a while and then going back in the house ... and then leaving the house and before going anywhere, just go right back inside ... then take a break for a few hours and then leave the house again, get in the car and drive around the block and come back home without really doing anything other than simply practicing leaving home. Maybe later, you could drive to a petstore or some other dog-friendly place that's not the park and make a visit of it. Mix in a walk to the park somewhere in there.
You get the idea.
Let her know what you expect and be as consistent as you can possibly be; Mastiffs want to please. __________________ http://www.WalnutCrestMastiffs.com
resources for rescue ==> http://www.englishmastiffrescue.net/
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle
"The most fundamental form of human stupidity is forgetting what we were trying to do in the first place." - Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Sunstone

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Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 3,419
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| Posted 06/14/12 at 03:46 PM | Reply with quote #9 |
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IMO for safety's sake I would have her on a properly fitted, properly used choke collar any time I left the house with her. If she was to try to bolt from you a flat buckle collar can come right over her head, the choke chain will tighten giving you a chance to regain control over the situation. I don't think she's trying to dominate anyone or anything, I think she's trying to get away from a situation that she isn't comfortable with.
I would definitely use treats, not to lure or coax her but to reward her for doing well, if she takes 2 confident steps, praise and reward! I agree with acting as if you have done this every day and would also suggest sitting on the front entry if possible and just hanging out. I hope some of this helps, good luck!
__________________ Barrie & the Sunstone Crew
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Sunstone Mastiffs,Ca.
http://www.sunstonemastiffs.com
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http://greengirl.shedenara.com
“The pendulum of type swings to and fro, but those remaining true to the standard triumph in the end.”~unknown |
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MaineMastiff
Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 229
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| Posted 06/14/12 at 07:59 PM | Reply with quote #10 |
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I would be careful about bribing her too often. But I would also not drag her out the door or correct her fear. She needs to go out of her own free will.
The general rule is that a dog in motion is a happier, more relaxed dog. I think you want to make it your goal to keep her moving.
Try playing in the house with her (or on the patio area / easement), leash already in hand and ready to go. When she's geared up and happy, just quickly clip her up and head her out while staying playful and happy.
Don't wait to see how she's going to handle it. Don't anticipate her fear or reaction. Just move with confidence and expect her to do the same.
As for a collar, if you prefer a flat then do tighten it up and adjust so it rests higher up behind her ears. That way she will not back slip her collar.
__________________ Julia
UWPCH Mishka, Beast of the North CGC, OBT, WP1 December 10, 2005-November 11, 2011 |
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MaineMastiff
Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 229
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| Posted 06/14/12 at 08:02 PM | Reply with quote #11 |
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One more thing:
Doors are really awkward because you have to stop and open them and that gives the dog time to stop and reconsider. I would suggest opening the door ahead of time or using the alley so you don't have to pause. Once she's in the right head space, time is of the essence. __________________ Julia
UWPCH Mishka, Beast of the North CGC, OBT, WP1 December 10, 2005-November 11, 2011 |
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erikam
Registered: 01/21/12
Posts: 1,459
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| Posted 06/14/12 at 10:20 PM | Reply with quote #12 |
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Quote: she is trying to be dominating. I am not sure if she is testing me or if she is scared since her vibe when lying down is somewhat as if she has shut down. Should I use a choke collar to give her a hard correction when lying down? Any ideas would be great.
Please dont do that. Your dog is scared, and not trying to dominate or test you. The harsher you are, the more you force the situation, the less your dog will trust you. I would suggest 4 things immediately 1) potty train her in your small area (yard). She will go eventually, once she is certain she will not be punished and that it is ok. Encourage her with BRIBES yes lots and lots and lots of BRIBES -stop walking until you get a handle on things 2) Get some good books on scared dogs and how to deal with them, how to work thresholds and learn to look at things and in the mean time, DON"T FORCE HER - you're effectively flooding her when you pull her out into streets that scare her. If you must walk her - DO NOT USE A CHOKE goodness the dog is super spooked and now she is being throttled, MORE SCAREY - get a good harness that she can't get out of. 3) get a good medical check up (the dog of course) and talk with your vet about drugs - she may well benefit from drugs to calm her down until you and her can learn to deal. You can do a consult by phone with behaviorists, or Penn State has a GREAT vet behaviorists that can prescribe meds 4) get a good trainer on your side - look here: http://www.apdt.com/petowners/ts/default.aspx please read their "how to choose a dog trainer"
Book suggestions - note some of these are for aggressive "reactive" dogs, many of the methods work for fear, as lots of aggression is fear based http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB799 http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB825 http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB956
__________________ http://www.kyniska.com |
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dixierockstarr

Registered: 11/28/11
Posts: 933
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| Posted 06/15/12 at 12:20 PM | Reply with quote #13 |
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She sounds very scared. A choke chain might make her panic.
I think you should ignore her completely when she shuts down. Stand in the direction you want her to go and call a good friend to chat. As soon as she gets up tell your friend in a loud, excited voice "gotta go Riggs is a good girl" give her a treat and pet her as you walk. If something else spooks her ignore it completely so you don't confirm her suspicion that this thing requires pause. If she shuts down reapeat step one. If she rushes past it or keeps walking treat and pet while you keep walking.
I think you should do this once a day until she is confident. Take her to the easement several times a day but only once to the park. Use the side door for bathroom breaks and the front door for the walk.
Remember, if you are nervous, she will be nervous.
Just my 2 cents.
Good luck! __________________ Christin
Member MCOA
Mom to Bravo son of
Intl Ch Dixie Rockstarr (RIP baby),
Fiona our pound puppy,
Chloe our kitty,
And 3 handsome gentlemen Brockton, Christopher and Jordan |
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Flacabearyum
Registered: 06/13/12
Posts: 3
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| Posted 06/15/12 at 12:29 PM | Reply with quote #14 |
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| Thanks everyone. I can see that she is definitely still very nervous when we come outside. Her and I tried this morning by ourselves and she made it out of the easement after another dog walked by (she barked and came to investigate or protect - not sure). I praised and treated and put the leash on, but then she sat and didn't move so I made her sit next to me while I was on the front stoop so she could observe the activity on the street. I have been trying to be more assertive and have her sit before she goes back in the easement, before food, working on training beforehand, before the dog park entrance (when I walk her with my husband - she has no problem walking with us together) etc. I'll try working on going in and out of the easement more as well, without necessarily going on a walk. I will not use the choke collar as it does make me uncomfortable because I can tell she is scared when I use it (and it doesn't really help her move anyway). |
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