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LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #1 
[image]AKC rules are pretty clear -

"

Why can one owner of a co-owned dam submit an online litter application?

Answer:

The AKC Board of Directors approved a policy change in July, 2003 to require only one owner of a co-owned dam to submit an application online. The owner submitting the application is required to have permission of all the co-owners of the dam and be able to support the permission to the AKC upon request. The policy of requiring all the co-owners to sign-off on a puppy sale is still in effect. If an owner was to register a litter online without the other co-owners permission, by the time of the puppy sale the co-owners would have had to agree in order to sell the puppy, or the owner would have committed fraud by registering online, and would perpetrate additional fraud by signing all the co-owners names to the application.

Click here to review a Sample Authorization Form

By clicking on the [I Agree and Certify] button while submitting an application, you are authenticating the information provided as you would be with a written signature. Any misrepresentation on this application or any AKC application may result in the cancellation of the registration and/or the loss of AKC privileges. "

*******************************************************

I  co-own Ch Greesons Drama Queen with Lorie Sandlin.  ( I am also her breeder ) I was very surprised to see that not only has she registered a litter from her with AKC without my knowledge or consent, but four of the puppies have been individually registered with out my knowledge or consent. Litter # WS439404.

Also, another detail - the litter was registered as being born May 4th, when in fact they were born May 11th - as published numerous times on Sandragon's web page and other places on the internet.  I guess lying sure comes easy to some people.

I am filing fraud charges with AKC in regards to this matter - so if you have one of these puppies be advised that there may be a problem with your papers.  " Any misrepresentation on this application or any AKC application may result in the cancellation of the registration and/or the loss of AKC privileges. "
"


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
KINGODEN

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Reply with quote  #2 
Unbelievable.   What a shame that there are folks out there who don't appreciate someone's kindness and am just elated that this deed will not go unpunished.  What folks do for greed....
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JULIE WADE
kcornel4

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Reply with quote  #3 
Crikey!

Have you spoken with Lorie Sandlin directly about this?!

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Karen
dirtpoor

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Reply with quote  #4 
I'm guessing from the rules you posted off AKC she bred a bitch co-owned with you and had a litter?

I would NOT want to be her right now.......

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Kristie in Texas
Proud mom of Daisy and Gunnar who live in Heaven with God and my daddy, Grace my silly clown who makes me laugh when I cry and every opportunity she thinks she can, Oliver who beat the odds and survived the impossible, Chigger, he's an a$$ but he's my little A$$....

And my new boy Elah!!!!!!
dirtpoor

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Reply with quote  #5 
I have an awesome attorney if you need his info.
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Kristie in Texas
Proud mom of Daisy and Gunnar who live in Heaven with God and my daddy, Grace my silly clown who makes me laugh when I cry and every opportunity she thinks she can, Oliver who beat the odds and survived the impossible, Chigger, he's an a$$ but he's my little A$$....

And my new boy Elah!!!!!!
Beth

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Reply with quote  #6 
This saddens me. When Baou was on the circuit and I traveled up and down the east coast to watch him show I was always eager to get home to the comradarie of Florida breeders ringside. I have admired you and Lorie for years, your friendship, willingness to help each other in life and at shows. This is not the relationship I have observed. I do not believe either of you would harm the other. Stand by the strong history of friendship. Delete these harmful words and work it out privately. I will help if I am able. Hugs to you both.
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Beth, Balou, and Pirate aka "The Hippo"
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #7 
I have emailed Lorie numerous times and called and left messages on her answering maching - she has not answered a single email or returned a single call.  My phone records any incoming calls.. even if she did not leave a message for me the call would have been logged, which there was none.

Lorie owes me two puppies from Drama from this litter - or the price of two puppies if she did not wish to give me the puppies.  Obviously she intends to ignore this.. but this is NOT ABOUT THE MONEY. It is about FRAUD.  If someone had not told me about the breeding I would not have even known that she had been bred.  As co-owner of Drama ( and also her breeder ) I should at least been given the courtesy of her telling me that she had bred her.  She never notified me that the puppies had been born  - absolutely nothing.  My last message that I left on her answering machine was asking her to PLEASE call me to see if we could not work things out.. I tried nice, it got me nowhere.

If she registered the litter online she lied when she checked off the box stating that the co-owner of the bitch was aware of and agreed to the litter being registered. I did not. Then when she transferred ownership of the puppies she lied again, or forged my signature if it was done via hard copy. BIG LIE -  BIG FRAUD. It all comes down to lying and fraud, and I am not going to put up with this. I doubt that AKC will tolerate it either. I will let you all know what AKC decides.. most likely all papers will be voided..

If you purchased one of these puppies I feel sorry that you were deceived.. because you were.  You were sold a puppy that did not belong soley to Lorie Sandlin and were not hers to sell.

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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #8 
Boy - this gal has brass. She registered all seven of the puppies - :  I have filed a formal complaint with AKC, in writing.  It will be interesting to see how she tries to justify forging my name/consent on registering the litter, and then forging my name/consent on the transfer of ownership of the puppies.  Maybe she thought I was dead or something? Am I missing something here? Can we just lie and say anything we want to AKC and get away with it? Well, not if I have anything to do with it.

 

 

AKC Number

Name

Sex

Reg Type


 

WS43940907

Sandragons Magnus Cratos

M

Full


WS43940902

Sandragons Danica The Ice Maiden

F

Full


WS43940903

Sandragons Deja Vu

F

Full


WS43940904

Sandragon's Leonidas

M

Full


WS43940906

Sandragon Demolition Willow

F

Full


WS43940905

Sandragon's Recon

M

Full


WS43940901

Sandragons Dantes Inferno

M

Full

 


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
kcornel4

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Reply with quote  #9 
Linda
This is just appalling!!! It's almost inconceivable to me that she could have possibly thought you would not discover her fraud and deceit!..... AND the puppies have ALL been sold on full registration!!!?? Please keep us apprised of developments.

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Karen
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Reply with quote  #10 
Linda,

Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.  This is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, and does nothing but hurt the breed, and that is something I will not put up with.

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Kristie in Texas
Proud mom of Daisy and Gunnar who live in Heaven with God and my daddy, Grace my silly clown who makes me laugh when I cry and every opportunity she thinks she can, Oliver who beat the odds and survived the impossible, Chigger, he's an a$$ but he's my little A$$....

And my new boy Elah!!!!!!
Crossroads

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Reply with quote  #11 
Once the litter registration takes place with a co-owned bitch, the pups can easily be registered online with the PIN number and Full Registration code.  You don't have to worry about the actual paper copy and sending it to the co-owner for signatures.  This is a loophole the AKC should consider closing up.  



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Beth

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Reply with quote  #12 
Somebody please explain co-ownership to me.  Does the AKC not require a written contract that sets out the specific rights and responsibilities of each party with regard to feeding, health care, health testing, showing, physical custody, etc.?

With regards to the "consent" of the co-owner required by the AKC, does it have to be in writing or can it be oral? What about implied consent?

As long as this thread isn't going away, let's at least move away from the bashing and toward education.

Linda, I am worried about you.  You have made some strong and damaging accusations in a public forum with wide publication.  I hope you are confident, in throwing stones, that you don't live in a glass house. 

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Beth, Balou, and Pirate aka "The Hippo"
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #13 
Thank you Erika - and just so this action does not set an example for anyone wishing to fraudulently enter a litter registration online:

From AKC Procedures for Registration Matters:

Page 12 - Electronic signatures:

Dam Owner:   The AKC requires only one owner of a co-owned dam to submit a litter application online. The owner submitting the application is required to have
written permission of all the co-owners of the dam and be able to present the written authorization to the AKC upon request.  A sample authorization form is available for review on the AKC website. The policy of requiring all of the co-owners to sign off on a puppy transfer is still in effect.

False Online Certifications:  As with paper applications, the AKC via online registration requires proper certification from the appropriate parties to register litters on individual dogs via online registration.  Individuals who improperly certify to an online registration are subject to disciplinary action.


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #14 
Beth - I have just presented the facts here... honestly. I hate to see others think they can do this sort of thing - apparently many people think they can do this online with AKC and get away with it.  Many people think this is a blunder on the part of AKC - it is not. AKC has requirements to circumvent fraud.

I agree that this thread should be educational - and hopefully it is. 

And for the record ( no pun intended ) all of my records are up to date and well organized. AKC puts out a great record keeping book that makes it very easy to keep track of things in a very organized manner.  All of my dogs ( 5 at home and 1 out with a handler being shown ) are healthy and clean - they live in my house soaking up air conditioning. I only have one male, so there can never be a dispute on multiple sires.   We have no fleas or worms ( thanks to Trifexis ). We feed excellent foods - if anything they sometimes get too fat.  So if anyone has a problem with me they are the ones with the problem, not me.  I play the game by the rules and I expect others to do the same... that's all, just to be honest and fair.

Beth - if you have any thing that you feel should put me in a house of glass, please let us know. I am not throwing stones - I am presenting the truth.  My life is an open book - I sure don't have any secretes.

 
Attached Files
pdf DogRecord.pdf (546.26 KB, 84 views)


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".

GinaG

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Reply with quote  #15 
I would think long time breeders on both sides know enough about co ownership and AKC rules and regs so that this does not happen. I feel sorry for the puppies that didn't ask to be bred, born or bought by unsuspecting owners who may or not be subjected to the arguements between two reputable breeders. Sadly, this should be private and the only thing people are learning from this thread is yet another falling out within the Mastiff fancy. I hope both sides can come together and resolve the damage.
Gina

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gina anelli
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Reply with quote  #16 
Co-ownership can look good going in, but can become a whole different picture going out.

For example, you agree to co-own a bitch with someone and agree on the terms when the bitch is bred.

It looks attractive, since you get to own the bitch and either got it for free, or you received a big discount because of the terms of the deal.

Now for the reality.

The co-owner of where the bitch resides, typically pays for the upkeep of the bitch. Vet bills, food, etc., unless that's deducted off of the income from a litter and the remaining profits split down the middle.

At other times, the other co-owner will just get a pup or two and the deal is completed.

The problem begins when the amount of time, money & effort that must go into raising a Mastiff & breeding a Mastiff is realized.

One party is passive and the other active. The active participant can begin to resent the deal they originally agreed upon and that's when the trouble begins.

So for those of you thinking about becoming a co-owner with someone, it's best to sit down with that person and review all of the possible scenarios down the road, in order to avoid the troubles that will ultimately ensue, if not addressed early on in the relationship!

Often, the active co-owner cannot afford the Mastiff and was the reason for the original co-ownership. After a litter is on the ground, the money looks good and deals are forgotten, or circumvented. There can be many reasons for breaking a contract, but in the co-ownership of Mastiffs, it's typically tied to avarice and lost integrity.

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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
I would think long time breeders on both sides know enough about co ownership and AKC rules and regs so that this does not happen.

Unfortunately, in this case it evidently HAS happened.

Quote:
Sadly, this should be private...


Linda has stated -- in response to my question as to whether she had spoken directly to the other breeder about the situation, (after she discovered it thanks to a third party) --

Quote:
I have emailed Lorie numerous times and called and left messages on her answering machine - she has not answered a single email or returned a single call.  My phone records any incoming calls.. even if she did not leave a message for me the call would have been logged, which there was none
.

I have every confidence that if this person had chosen to discuss and attempt to find a resolution privately, Linda would not have made it public.

Quote:

the only thing people are learning from this thread is yet another falling out within the Mastiff fancy


Given the various informative posts about processes and challenges involved in co-ownership and on-line registration rules and procedures, I have learned a great deal.

Finally, yes, Linda made her allegations public on this forum. However, she is also taking appropriate action with the AKC and has stated she will advise us of the findings.

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Karen
Beth

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Reply with quote  #18 
Not an accusation from me, Linda, simply a reflection that when someone throws dirt it usually gets thrown back.
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Beth, Balou, and Pirate aka "The Hippo"
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #19 
Not throwing dirt Beth - just trying to warn others of a bad situation and hope that we all learn from it.
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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #20 
More education:

AKC Board Policy Manual:

 

Registration: Referral and Cancellation (July 1995 Board meeting)
Referral (General Description):
This is the process whereby AKC places a hold upon the registration of dogs owned or co-owned by a person whose AKC registration privileges have been suspended or who is suspected of a violation of AKC rules or policy. when a person is placed on referral, the AKC will not honor any transactions involving that individual or any dogs they own or co-own. There are two types of referrals.

Temporary Referral:
When a person is suspected of a violation of AKC rules or policy which might result in a suspension of privileges for that person, AKC may temporarily place on referral all dogs owned or co-owned by that person. The purpose of this procedure is to prevent a person from transferring dogs and thus from evading the consequences of a subsequent suspension of privileges while the matter is in an investigative stage. When AKC determines that no violation has occurred and no action will be taken to cause a suspension of privileges, the temporary referral will be removed.

Permanent Referral:
When a person's AKC privileges have been suspended, AKC may place on permanent referral all dogs or litters owned or co-owned by that person . The referral shall exist for the duration of the suspension and shall exist beyond the term of the suspension when said suspension was for a violation of the rules required for record keeping and identification as set forth in Chapter 4, Rules Applying to Registration and Discipline.

The suspension of a person's privilege to use the AKC registry may be based upon a violation of the rule requiring accurate record keeping and identification or for a violation of other rules or policy prohibiting conduct prejudicial to AKC interests. Thus, a suspension of registry privileges may result from actions that endanger the accuracy of the registry or be strictly punitive in nature and not related to the registry's accuracy.

It is the policy of AKC that in permanent referral, the affected registrations , as well as the registration of any future progeny, will be denied transfer as well as the registration of any future progeny. All registration activity is placed on administrative hold. However, in record keeping and identification based cases, AKC may place on referral prior progeny when there is clear evidence that demonstrates the inaccuracy of the registry of that prior progeny.

Cancellation:
This process involves the removal of the registration from the registry when AKC determines that the affected dogs are not purebred AKC registrable dogs. This occurs most often in cases of impure breeding or fraud but may also result from a serious violation of the rules requiring accurate record keeping and identification. When a registration is cancelled, all progeny of that dog are also canceled.



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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #21 
AKC is working on this case - hopefully we will have the results of their findings soon. The wheels turn slow - but they are turning.
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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
kcornel4

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Reply with quote  #22 
Thanks for the update! I had been wondering whether or not things were in motion!
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Karen
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #23 
Almost done - I should know the outcome in 3-4 weeks or sooner.  AKC has been very nice to work with - I am impressed.
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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
kcornel4

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Reply with quote  #24 
good! That sounds very promising! [smile]
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Karen
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Reply with quote  #25 
I had this exact thing happen to me. I was on the buyers side though. I bought a frenchie from a breeder and didn't know that he co-owned the mother with someone else. He registered the litter online and agreed to the co-owner knowing about it. Sure enough the co-owner found out about the litter and filed a complaint with the AKC. I of course got involved being that I had a full registration show prospect puppy. Guess what happened............I got to keep full registration. They slapped my breeder on the hand and said that all the people who bought pups from the litter spent good money on show dogs and it wasn't their fault so all pups remained with full registration. The co-owner tried to get AKC to make all the pups limited but AKC didn't go for it because they said all of these people that bought pups were unknowing and they deserved what they bought, a full registered dog.

Sooooooo now when I sell a pup to someone if it's a pet or show prospect the pup does NOT under any circumstances get registered under any name but mine. My buyers are fully aware that I will remain as the main owner, the dog lives with them, and when they have met my requirements in my contract I sign the dog off. Even full registration dogs have my name on them. The owner can show the dog if they'd like but if they go to register a litter......BAM they can't unless they use my name and email address in which case AKC notifies me instantly. I can see any litter registration activity in my AKC account too. And for those that are MCOA members this meets the requirements of "Furnish a signed AKC registration or transfer form, unless written agreement is made with the buyer that such papers are withheld or are to follow". They sign an agreement about when they will get papers (after spay, after health testing etc.) Now, it takes a lot of trust on the part of the buyer to buy a dog from me but if they don't like it there are tons of other breeders out there. I am pretty fair with my puppy buyers and have on numerous occasions paid for veterinary care and paid all of the show expenses for buyers.

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Breanne Hernandez
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #26 
Breanne - "......BAM they can't unless they use my name and email address in which case AKC notifies me instantly. I can see any litter registration activity in my AKC account too."... I can tell you for a fact that is not true.  I am down as the main owner and my address and email address is the first one - and I was never notified of anything. I found out for myself by checking the AKC online records, but I was definitely never notified.

I am not out to make things difficult for the buyers of these puppies - they were lied to just like I was.


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
houseofmastiffs

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Reply with quote  #27 
Maybe I didn't specify, I don't allow anyone other than myself on the paperwork. You weren't notified because Sandra (I think that is her name) is an owner and her email address was on your shared dogs registration. I don't ever allow anyone's name on the paperwork but my own. So if someone goes to register a litter and their name or email isn't recognized by AKC the registration is halted. AKC had no reason to halt anything in your case nor notify you because she has as much authority to register a litter as you do as long as you both are in agreement and even if you both don't agree AKC will probably still give all the pups full registration. AKC has forced breeders to do what I do and not share ownership between multiple parties. It's a shame too because they charge more for each co-owner but when they have disregard for situations like the one you're in they lose in the long run because breeders end up doing what I do and not allowing ownership on paper by anyone but the breeder. Hopefully in your case she gets more than a slap on the hand like my breeder got. Every month I see people fined and suspended from AKC for doing exactly what she did......how my frenchie breeder got off with nothing is beyond me.


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Breanne Hernandez
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #28 
So you sell puppies to people and give them no AKC registrations and no ownership? Why don't you just sell them on Limited Registration?
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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
houseofmastiffs

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Reply with quote  #29 
I do sell most on limited. But for those that want to show their dog they need full registration. And no female of mine will be bred before she's 2 and health tested so once they (buyer) can show me that they are serious and have all their health testing complete then I transfer ownership to them. They get a copy of the registration with my name on it so they have the AKC number and can enter AKC conformation shows but the registration is in my name. I register the entire litter to myself which is somewhat encouraged by the AKC since every registered litter now comes with a packet and a form to register the entire litter to the breeder.
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LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #30 
Yes, as a breeder you can register the entire litter ( which I do ) but you can have the papers transferred directly to the new owners on that form. You also have the option on each puppy as registering it Limited or Full.
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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #31 
I heard from AKC today. They thanked me for my paperwork and assured me that they were working on the case and thanked me for my patience. It was nice of them to keep me informed. They have nice staff.
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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
kcornel4

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Reply with quote  #32 
It is very nice and professional of them to keep you updated! Hoping for a good result!!
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Karen
kcornel4

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Reply with quote  #33 
Linda,

Any further developments?

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Karen
Araucaria_Mastiffs

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Reply with quote  #34 
Hi Linda - any updates on this?
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LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #35 
Yes, we had to get an extension due to my health issues.
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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
Araucaria_Mastiffs

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Reply with quote  #36 
Awwwww sorry to hear you've not been well - hope you're feeling better now x
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Some people are like slinkies, good for nothing but still make you smile when you push them down the stairs
Tracy

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Reply with quote  #37 
I wonder if AKC will do anything. Not necessarily in this case but I know of a couple of registrations in other breeds that had issues ( forged signitures ect, that they really did nothing at all)
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LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #38 
AKC is working on it .. They told me that a letter was sent to Loriie onn Jan. 6th and she has until Jan 31st to respond. lorie has had an attorney contact me requesting an appology, a retraction of statements made, my signing all documents and even signing over my co ownership of Drama to her.

i have only stated honest and truthful remarks and have no intension of making any retractions, or commiting fraud myself by signing any
Paperwork.

Sometimes people have to accept the consequences of their behavior. AKC is very clear about what the rules are, dso we will see.

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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #39 
Bump for education.. the wheels are turning -- very soon with an answer.
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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
Marksue

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Reply with quote  #40 
Doesn't look like anything is going to happen. It's been over 7 months and nothing. It is not that difficult for AKC to do something. Sucks.
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #41 
  I just heard from them last week.. should know something by the end of the month.
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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #42 
I heard from AKC today - actually, I heard from them 8 times via email today. They sent me copies of the new AKC Registration certificates for both the seven puppies involved in this discussion, and also for the male dog ( Dragon ) that was supposed to be co-owned by me.  I am now the co-owner of all of them.  Lorie Sandlin and Linda Greeson-Rice.

This is just the first part - it remains to be seen if Lorie Sandlin will be suspended/fined.

I have attached the AKC copies of all of the dogs. Since I am their co-owner I have the right to do so. 

If you have purchased a dog from Lorie you will see the new AKC Certificate here - your existing AKC papers are no longer valid. 

There are lessons to be learned here.

 
Attached Files
pdf REGCERT_WS41116901_-_Dragon.pdf (613.72 KB, 148 views)
pdf REGCERT_WS43940901.pdf (613.67 KB, 98 views)
pdf REGCERT_WS43940902.pdf (613.68 KB, 70 views)
pdf REGCERT_WS43940903.pdf (613.67 KB, 52 views)
pdf REGCERT_WS43940904.pdf (613.67 KB, 51 views)
pdf REGCERT_WS43940905.pdf (613.67 KB, 45 views)
pdf REGCERT_WS43940906.pdf (613.68 KB, 46 views)
pdf REGCERT_WS43940907.pdf (613.67 KB, 59 views)


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".

WalnutCrest

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Reply with quote  #43 
Interesting.

So, to make sure I have this correct, none of the people who gave money to Lorie Sandlin and who are in possession of a dog/bitch whelped as a result of the breeding referenced above are on the ownership papers?

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http://www.WalnutCrestMastiffs.com (site is down for a redo --- if you want/need anything, drop me a note)

resources for rescue ==> http://www.englishmastiffrescue.net/

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle

"The most fundamental form of human stupidity is forgetting what we were trying to do in the first place." - Friedrich Nietzsche
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #44 
Correct.
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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
houseofmastiffs

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Reply with quote  #45 
Which is exactly what I do, Pets have no need for paperwork and as long as you are up front and tell the buyer there is no paperwork unless conditions are met that's ok.

If the people who bought the dogs bought them as pets they won't care or know who's name is on the paperwork. Any males can be used at stud so long as one co-owner signs.

So I guess the only lesson learned is not to co-own, ever.

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Breanne Hernandez
nancy_huether

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Reply with quote  #46 
All 7 puppies were sold with full reg ? Did I read that right...? Who sells an entire litter at full reg ?.. Wow

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LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #47 
I sell - almost two years now - ALL of my puppies on Limited Registration, including show prospects. If, after they are twelve months old, they have testing done and they still appear to have potential, I will upgrade ( more $$ also )

I would never have let this litter all go on full registration, but because Lorie already registered them with full registration, and some of them have been shown, they left the registration as full. AT this point that is fine with me, as they are beautiful youngsters. Problem is they can no longer be shown, as they are no longer owned by the original owners. ..Of course, Lorie can show the ones she kept , and Dragon, under her and my name, as long as she has not been sanctioned by AKC. If she gets sanctioned, her show days are over.  She can also breed Dragon ( as she has been able to in the past ) without my signature. ( only one signature is required on a stud dog ) -- again, until she gets sanctioned. They she can not sign for anything.

I wish I knew who the people are that have purchased these puppies - if AKC has not already informed them - which may take a week or more - I would like them to know. Could save them from paying entry fees at shows, because they will not get any refunds.


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #48 
I am so tickled that AKC did the right thing and actually followed their own rules. [image]
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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
silvercrest

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Reply with quote  #49 
So were they all registered in only Lorie's name and not the new owners who purchased them or did the AKC change it to both of you leaving the new owners out? It sounds like some sanctioning is in order. Does she admit any of this? I can't see how she would dispute it but I am never surprised on how things get spun to fit someones own purpose. 
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #50 
Lorie registered the litter without my consent. Then she registered all of the puppies, transferring their ownership to the new owners and some to herself, all without my consent or signature.  The facts are very simple, as AKC has recognized. I am sure she has disputed it up the gazoo, but apparently it didn't fly with AKC. The facts are the facts.

Oh what a tangled web we weave ...

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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
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