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hdoc777

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Hello everyone!

I am new to this message board.  I surf boards for info, but rarely post.  I have a really quick question for all of you Mastiff breeders.  Do any of you know Angie Fish or Heska Mastiffs in CT?  I emailed last week and haven't heard back and called her number quite a few times and the recording says that the number is no longer in service.  Do any of you have an alternative way to reach her?

Thank you all kindly for your time,
Hope

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she is on facebook the last time I saw her post on anything


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She is on Facebook



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hdoc777

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Thank you for your quick response.

I sent her a friend request and message there.  I guess I will wait to see if she gets back to me.

I just got nervous when the phone number said that the number is not in service anymore.  I have a deposit on one of the Heska puppies.

It is hard finding a reputable breeder.  I have been on so many sites doing research.  I found her and liked her site and she was so informative about her dogs and her breeding.  I live in NJ and she is in CT, so I have not had the opportunity to meet her in person or see the place that the dogs live yet.  I sent my deposit, based on trust.  I was leary because in this day in age, there are alot of shifty people out there that are just waiting to prey on people and scam them.  I am in no way saying that she is scamming me.  I just get nervous that I sent a deposit to a place and to people that I have never met.

Is there anyone on here that 'knows' her or has been to her house and visited with her dogs?  Has anyone here purchased a puppy from her or bred with her?

If I don't get a response from the facebook page, I will try something else.

I'm sorry that I did not introduce myself on the new members page yet.  I will do that now.
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Don't worry, Angie is very honest . She has been very sick and I think living with her Dad for a while while she gets back on her feet.Once she knows you are trying to reach her she will get back to you.


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Reply with quote  #6 

I know Angie.  She's a nice girl.  She has MS and her flare ups knock her back occasionally.  That may be the cause for her fall off in communication.  Don't worry too much, I'm sure she'll do the right thing. 


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hdoc777

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Thank you for your reassurance.  I was in contact with her by email and phone.  I sent in my deposit, which made me extremely nervous due to the fact of sending any stranger cash by moneygram would make anyone.  Now I can't get in touch with her and her phone says it is no longer in service, so I was panicking.  One reason is that, of course, I do not want to lose my money, but the other is that I am so excited about getting a new puppy from her.

If you know her and know how to get in touch, please let her know that I would like to know how to reach her.

Thank you very kindly,
Hope
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By the way the pups are not born yet but should be here any minute.


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hdoc777

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Which ones?  I know she said Molly was having some (last week, maybe) and Maddy is due now.  She was going to let me know when the C-Section was going to be scheduled for and I was going to help with the pups as they were born.

I hope my post did not come across badly for Angie.  I would not try to make her look bad.  I was just concerned that she became unreachable and the phone is disconnected as well.  I am not a person who just moneygrams cash to people that I don't really know.  I figured since she is a breeder and there are a ton of breeders on this forum, someone had to know her.

Thanks you all so much for the info.

Hope
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Reply with quote  #10 
I hope Angie is doin ok...how can she manage to breed with all of these health concerns...but I know she will do the right thing...although I would NEVER send money to someone who I didn't know. There are plenty of breeders in NJ and surrounding states that you can visit and see the sire, dam and pups. You were very lucky to find Angie though...from what I know of her she is honest.
best of luck to you...
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You have a private message


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hdoc777

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I know.  It is not characteristic of me to send money like that.  She said that is how it is done.  The last Mastiff I bought was 12 years ago from a breeder in PA.  My husband and I drove out there and saw the puppy we wanted, we paid her with a personal check and took our girl home.  The breeder was an older woman at that time and soon after, she had to stop breeding Mastiffs.

I did look in NJ and did not see any that I thought were good or that had litters coming.  I was leary and nervous about doing this the way that I did.  I drilled her with a million questions like I was a detective and her answers were good.  Both the sire and dam live in her house.  She has many pictures of them there, on the couch, bed and so on.  Either way, wiring money wasn't my smartest move, no matter how honest or nice someone appears to be.  I knew that she was just about done taking deposits on this litter, so I didn't want to miss out.

Thank you for the information and your genuine concern. 

Hope
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads

I know Angie.  She's a nice girl.  She has MS and her flare ups knock her back occasionally.  That may be the cause for her fall off in communication.  Don't worry too much, I'm sure she'll do the right thing. 

Ugh! My neighbor has MS and it's terrible.   He's such a nice guy; once he dug the whole for us when he knew we had just left for the vets to euthanize my dog, Max.  So that was one less thing we had to worry about.  It's really taken a toll on him; he can no longer see well enough to drive.  Terrible disease.

Dawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdoc777
I know.  It is not characteristic of me to send money like that.  She said that is how it is done.  The last Mastiff I bought was 12 years ago from a breeder in PA.  My husband and I drove out there and saw the puppy we wanted, we paid her with a personal check and took our girl home.  The breeder was an older woman at that time and soon after, she had to stop breeding Mastiffs.

I did look in NJ and did not see any that I thought were good or that had litters coming.  I was leary and nervous about doing this the way that I did.  I drilled her with a million questions like I was a detective and her answers were good.  Both the sire and dam live in her house.  She has many pictures of them there, on the couch, bed and so on.  Either way, wiring money wasn't my smartest move, no matter how honest or nice someone appears to be.  I knew that she was just about done taking deposits on this litter, so I didn't want to miss out.

Thank you for the information and your genuine concern. 

Hope

Hope, you will not find any people more in love with their Mastiffs than those on this forum.  They have a genuine interest in doing the best they can with the Mastiff breed and are AWESOME about helping people out!  You came to the right place for help/info.
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hdoc777

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Thank you Dawn.

You guys are all awesome!

Thanks.
Hope
hdoc777

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Please help me. 

This is to any of you who came out to tell me how great and honest Angie is.  I still cannot reach them.  I left another message on the cell phone number I obtained, main number is still not in service, no email responses, no facebook responses...If any of you know her personally or know how to get in touch with her, can you please tell her to reach out to me to let me know that everything is alright?  I just have an uneasy feeling about the fact that I gave a $600 cash deposit to someone who I now, can no longer reach.  Is this how it will be if I eventually get my puppy?  What if I have a problem and need to get in touch?  This is just not how I like to do business. 

I am having a rough week this week.  My mastiff Chloe would have had her 12th birthday this Friday and with this stress it is just too much.  I was feeling good about everything and feeling less sad about Chloe, looking forward to meeting my new, healthy puppy in May and now I feel like everything is up in the air.

I don't mean to vent on you nice, supportive people, but I just don't know what I should do?

Thank you sooo much for any help.
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This message was on her facebook page. I hope it puts your mind at ease

HI EVERYONE THIS IS LONI, ANGIE'S BEST FRIEND...I AM WRITING THIS TO LET U ALL KNOW THAT SHE IS CURRENTLY HAVING ISSUES WITH THE PHONE AND INTERNET CONNECTIONS BECAUSE OF HER HOME LOCATION, THE WORKERS ARE HAVING TROUBLE SETTING THE WIRES. SHOULD B UP AND RUNNING BY 4/5/11. TY FOR UR CONCERN AND SHE WILL GET BACK TO U ALL ASAP

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hdoc777

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Oh, thank you!!!!  I know she lives out in the middle of the woods in CT and has had phone issues in the past, but I know she has a cell phone and she used that quite a bit to email me in the past.  I hope that it is just her phone that is having problems and that is why she has not gotten back to me.  I have just been freaking out.  I'm sure that anyone in my situation would feel the same.  I have been trying to be patient and not just to any conclusions, that is why I posted here, to try to find someone that knows her and could put my mind at ease.

Thank you.
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 Angie asked to Please keep her 12 yr old daughter in your prayers. She  HAD AN ULTRASOUND DONE TODAY. SHE HAS MASSIVE LUMPS ON AND IN HER OVARIES. Needless to say they are worried sick.


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I will pray my Rosary for her daughter...Angie should not be doing doggie things at this time, it's too much for her (in my opinion) I hope someone is helping her with her Mastiffs ...especially if 2 bitches are preg....don't want to sound like an alarmist but how much can one person handle? She needs our prayers for sure...her daughter is only l2...hopefully everything will be ok...
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Gina, I so agree with you.  Angie is very sweet and loves her dogs, children, and family.  She is very sensitive to the plight of others and has tried to help so many when they had hospital bills and deaths in the family.
 
I wish her friends or Mastiff owners in the area would come together........not in money ...but in helping Angie.  When a child is sick, the Mother must be with them.  There is no time for anything else and should not be.  Angie's husband also has MS........so we know these things.  People are sometimes too proud to say this has become too much, soooo I wish a few of the close Mastiff owners make the time to go and check on Angie, really speak to her about letting go of breeding and having Mastiffs, and help her.  Their size and demand is hard on anyone just feeling bad for a day.  It is such a hard decision, but people need to step in here and help her.
 
We know about this now so it is now on our shoulders as well, especially people that were her original Breeders, or close by her.
 
I remember so well our Football Coach, when a player was paralyzed and there was limited recovery, he stepped up and when the young man said I will walk again Coach............Coach said no son you will not, let's grieve now and get it over with and plan for a new life you can have and work towards that....... because the other life you thought would be yours just doesn't work anymore.

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hdoc777

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I wish only the best outcome for her familys health issues and whatever else they may be going through. I will continue to keep them in my thoughts and prayers. I hope she receives the help and support that she needs. Sometimes we all need to put our pride or egos aside and let people know we are struggling. Sometimes you just have to put yourself out there and put your cards on the table and give people the benefit of the doubt that they will be understanding. What a hard situation for me to be in right now. I wish I knew the right way to proceed or not. Angie should be very grateful for the support you all are willing to provide to her. I just don't know why she does come to the forum any more. Thank you guys, who have helped me out with all of this.
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In case your not on Facebook, this was just posted this morning by Angie....
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
HEY everyone I am still alive! I still dont have service and I am so annoyed and switching companies they are sending me new equipment sooo it all should be here by the third of April...oh my gosh I am praying I feel so cut off...ughhh!!!
    • Heska Mastiffs during all of my phone drama my cell phone plan that I have had since I was 20 years old is closed....my mother had the plan under her name and decided to not renew this year sooo I am going to get my own plan so please abre with me one more week if I can make it that darn long ughhhhh I am on my fathers cell right now so I could update everyone my next post will be a bit more serious on everything that has been going in my world!
      12 minutes ago ·
    • Heska Mastiffs to all my new puppy owners I will message everyone one of you...to all of my mastiff owners please keep the messages coming and of course pictures I always want pics but all you guys know that I probably bother you all way to much LoL
      9 minutes ago ·

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Reply with quote  #24 
Unfortunately I have found myself in the same place as Hope with Heska Mastiffs. My family (husband and 3 kids -2,5,7 years old) and I spent the last year researching a breed to fit right in with our family. We fell in love with English Mastiffs and knew that this Spring would be the time to bring home our new addition. 

Our next step was to find a reputiable breeder. We had sent emails and inquiries to breeders within a 3hour range from our home in UpState New York beginning mid January. We received little responses, and the few that did respond turned out to not be so reputiable. Discouraged, we thought that maybe because we only wanted a healthy, family pet our luck wouldn't change.

In February (the 12th) we found Heska Mastiff's website. A beautiful website. I filled out the puppy questionaire and received a call the next day from Angie Fish. She said we sounded perfect for one of her pups, but this was a much anticpated rebreeding so if we were interested we needed to take action quickly to secure our unborn pup with a $600 deposit. She said the puppies would be ready to leave mid-May. We felt the deposit was steep in reference to others we had seen. I asked my husband to the "voice of reason" and he said he thought it sounded ok. (truth be told- he was just as excited as our 7 year old- and like me was thinking with his heart.) On February 14th (after much insisting from Angie that we were going to miss our chance) we wired her money from our local WalMart. The deposit was to be for a fawn or Apricot female from the litter of Bo and Maddy. If she could not accommodate our gender/color needs she would gladly return our deposit immediately. (Now to all of you brindle lovers...we too believe they are beautiful...but also look a bit more intimidating...with lots of people/children around...we thought fawn or apricots looked more like teddy bears.) I spoke with Angie to confirm her receiving the money. She did. I said, "I know the puppies are due to come home mid-May, but what is the Maddy's exact due date. I want to make a Puppy Paw Countdown with my children....they are so excited!" She said, "I am driving right now and my calendar isn't in front of me, but Maddy is 30 days pregnant right now.I will get you the date when I get home and call you back." I didn't hear from Angie that night, but a day later she accepted my friend request on facebook. I sent her a private message on February 19th asking for the date....and three more after that. On March 10th she replied "she still has 3weeks left....plenty of time."

Her posts became fewer and far between until a mid March post about no longer having access to a land line phone or internet. But she reassured everyone that she would be reachable on her cell phone and she would check her email from their as well. A few days later, a friend of Angie's posted that she no longer had a cell phone because a plan she had with her Mom since she was 20years old her Mom terminated. She was in the works of getting a plan with her immediate family. Now, red flags are starting to go up. If someone has the financial resources to breed English Mastiffs...how can they not afford to just go get a new plan...1 day...2 hours...thats all it would take. A trac phone even. Angie's friend Loni messaged me (after I posted to Heska's page asking if the puppies had been born yet) and told me that Molly was due the weekend of March 26th and that Maddy had a C section scheduled for April 25th. I was hoping that Loni had just gotten the dogs' names mixed up.

Over the next couple of days our concerns grew as posts were made about the health of Angie's daughter. In the meantime I found this forum and saw Hope's posts and knew things were not looking good for our pup or $600. But then- a post and message from Angie on March 27th. Angie told me that Molly had her pups and wanted to offer me one from her brindle litter. I remided her that (although we think they are beautiful) we had wanted a fawn or apricot. Sidebar-Molly is listed on the Heska website as a '"retired female"...and that just didn't sit right with me...although I said nothing.She said no worries, Maddy was due in about a week. I asked approximately when? She said, April 19th. When I began to question the discrepancies in the timeline she then changed the date to April 10th. I admittadly do not know the first thing about breeding dogs, but I due know they are pregnant for approximately 63-65 days. If Maddy was 30 days pregnant on February 14th when I made a deposit, how is this possible?

When I questioned the circumstances Angie said if I wanted my money back I would have to wait until she sold "our puppy". I told her I would give her one week. The agreement of us getting one of Maddy's pups was made under false pretenses. A sale with an intent to deceit. 

I feel I need to tell you that at some point I believe Angie may have been a great breeder, but now I believe her personal circumstances have become overwhelming. Exploiting the health of yourself or others is no excuse for taking advantage of people. We have health issues in our home too...I didn't ask for a break on the cost of the puppy. A responsibilty is a responsibilty. If you can't be committed you shouldn't do it. Angie threatened me saying that me posting my story would ruin my chance of ever getting a Mastiff because breeder'd don't like seeing buyers bad mouthing breeders. Her words fall on deaf ears. Any breeder would want to protect the reputation of the work they are doing as breeders and not want it tainted by such incidences.

If you are doubting my story, or its details, please know that I have had the task this weekend of telling my 3 children that they will not be bringing home their puppy in May. We are currently working with another breeder and waiting for our $600 to be returned.

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I'm so sorry this happened to you and your family. I'm sure the kids are crushed. I sincerely with you the best for the future in getting the right baby.


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Unfortunately, bankruptcy laws are written in a way that enable many to just walk away from moral obligations without any pangs of guilt.

Just recently one of my clients in Palm Beach, with whom I had personal guarantees I might add, knowingly closed their operation and re-opened under another name, then closed that fronted operation and re-opened once again.

I hired a collection agency in Erie Pa. to recover the $150,000.00 owed to me and to make a long story short, the collection agency settled the case for $5000 without asking me in advance, failed to notify their own lawyers in Palm Beach and now just filed for bankruptcy themselves.

Lots of theives out there, with laws that protect them instead of protecting the debtor!

People usually know well in advance, if they will or will not be able to pay people back, or deliver a service, or goods after first taking money up front.

So although I understand and sympathize with those that fall on hard times, it also depends on the way they go about their affairs, shortly before it totally hits the fan!

Some people just have no conscience!

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Reply with quote  #27 
I've tried so hard to stay away from this thread but just can't anymore.

A few months back Angie had posted on facebook that she was going to rehome all of her adult mastiffs because of her health condition etc.. She had a hard time with a litter just before the post and it was financially draining. A few days later she posted she would have just one more litter and then stop breeding...................that is when I lost it. I posted on her wall trying to convince her that having another litter wasn't going to help her and she fired back at me calling me every nasty name you could think of. A couple weeks went by and everything calmed down..........then I started getting emails from people weekly who had given her a deposit and they were nervous because they hadn't heard from her. Each time someone would email me I would have to explain that I don't know her and that we had an altercation on facebook and that was it. I received approximatley 4 emails from different people in this same situation. Recently I emailed her thru facebook asking her to delete the thread she had started about rehoming her mastiffs (because people were seeing my posts and emailing me) that ways people didn't see our altercation and come asking me questions about her. She denied taking deposits from people and wanted to know who had emailed me. I did not tell her who emailed me because they had come to me in confidence and asked me not to tell her because they didn't want to risk losing their deposit or puppy.

This isn't acceptable behavior for an ethical breeder.

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FYI--taking deposits--or asking for a puppy to be paid in full before the litter is breed, whelped and at least 6 weeks olds--is just poor judgement.

How in the world can anyone know IF they will get a successful litter when they bred a bitch?  How do you know what will be available?  You may have 10 whelped and only raise one.  you can lose a whole litter. Shit happens.

Untill you have puppies whelped, and up to the legal sale age (8 weeks in most states)  you do not have a "puppy" to sell.  One should not be accepting money when you have no puppy available. 

We all have issues spending the money we need to breed  our dogs.  I can see the attaction to have having puppy deposit money available to use for an upcoming  Breeding--less money out of your pocket.  However this is not a sound business practice for a breeder.  One could soon be in such a quire mire--that the money/finiancal side would have them deeply in debt.

IF you can't afford to just walk into the bathroom and flush the total amount you are about to need to spend down the toliet--then don't breed.  One should never expect to "make" money each time you breed. 

When one uses this approach--sooner or later the shit fairy is going to come to your house.  You have accepted money from buyers--and now you don't have any puppies and you also can not refund their money.  So you try and breed another litter --hopefully to make money to pay what you owe others--but once again you take money from other buyers. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.  Not a good idea.

There is a lesson here for some of us who breed. We need to use sound practical approaches when we "sell" our puppies. I utilized a waiting list--I have buyers complete a puppy questionnaire--I vertify their references and I place them on my waiting list. 

When I complete a breeding, I notify those on my waiting list  and ask IF they are still interested in a Puppy.  I do not accept any deposit until the puppies are 4 weeks old--and I do not "sell" every puppy at that time--I hold one male and one female in reserve.  I place my puppies in the order I recieve the deposits.

Families may come and see, visit and choose their puppy at 7 weeks after the PAT testing is complete.  No puppy leaves until it is 10 weeks old.  The puppy must be paid in full by 9 weeks of age--or other arrangements must be made.

I have returned deposits--when I found the buyer unsuitable--or if I did not have a puppy that matched their needs.  In 25 years, I have replaced one puppy due to a health issue.  I have had one buyer change his mind 48 hrs after he picked up his puppy(and I still believe his unapproving pregnant GF was the reason)--and I immediately refunded him his money.

If you depend on the income from your puppy sales to live on--then you have a problem.  Money used to breed dogs should be money you freely have in reserve--and can afford to spend.

I personally know Angie still owes a buyer a full refund of over $2,000.  He paid for a puppy including shipping--and she did not have a puppy for him.  Her excuse--she paid the "shipper" and they didn't ship the puppy and she didn't have any more money to pay anyone else to ship him his puppy--she wanted him to pay a second time for shipping. 

I placed a puppy with a buyer in the Dominican Republic from Cooter & Gracie's litter.  Due to the bad wether in the NE (the puppy had to fly out of JFK)  I was unable to ship her untill she was almost 6 months old--and she weighed 105 lbs.  My placement contact staed $250.00 for the shipping--which he had paid.  It cost me $610.00 to ship her.

Although it was not my fault that she could not be shipped any earlier--I paid the difference out of my pocket.  I did what I felt was right and what I had originally agreed to do.

Enuff said.

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Reply with quote  #29 
Excellent post Catie! You said many things that any buyer should listen to.

Another thing, I DO hope the really awesome people that defended her will realize that they should be very cautious about defending someone they don't know VERY well. Also, the buyer above was threatened by the old "if you are a "breeder basher", no good breeders will sell you a puppy". That's not true because some breeders deserved to be bashed when they rip of puppy buyers.

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Reply with quote  #30 
Teresa, no one has defended Angie, or said do not Breeder Bash......they only told about her illness. I am not sure why you would even bring that up.
 
Mary always thinks the best of Everyone and she believes in Everyone's goodness............it is Mary and no one wants Mary to ever change.  That is one reason and only one reason Mary is Awesome.
 
Everyone just said what they wanted within reason........Gina and I agreed Angie should get out of Mastiffs & Bernadette did also, and it is my belief that many people believe that.  
 
I also agree with Catie, I think it is crazy to take deposits on pups for all the reasons she said. 
 
People have every right to complain about their deposits and not getting the deposit back or a pup on anyone, and I don't believe anyone thinks that is Breeder Bashing.

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Reply with quote  #31 
You are right. Mary is one of the nicest people I've ever heard of. She never has a bad thing to say about anyone. She gives everyone the benefit of the doubt no matter who they are. Sometime people that think the best of people all the time are disappointed. That's all I'm saying. I truly wasn't dissing Mary. I won't vouch for anyone that I'm not 100% sure of. Does that make me a bad person or jaded? Jaded, probably; bad person, no. I've just seen and heard too much. YES, you, Gina and Catie appear to be right on. JMHO, but that how it appears to me.
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Don't worry, Angie is very honest . She has been very sick and I think living with her Dad for a while while she gets back on her feet.Once she knows you are trying to reach her she will get back to you.

 

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I know Angie.  She's a nice girl.  She has MS and her flare ups knock her back occasionally.  That may be the cause for her fall off in communication.  Don't worry too much, I'm sure she'll do the right thing. 




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Reply with quote  #32 
Not a Problem......

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Reply with quote  #33 
Why Thank Deb and Teresa for the kind words. 

I still think Angie will give everyone back their deposits. It may take a while  because she has to sell her litter of pups but I bet they all get their deposits back.

Sometimes things happen to good people and they get more then they can handle. Just saying.



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Reply with quote  #34 

I hope she does, but the point still remains that people should not take deposits and keep them. I personally thinks it's wrong to spend someone's deposit. If you can't afford to send it back immediately when you can't supply the puppy, the people should get their money RIGHT back. If you can't afford that, you shouldn't breed or ever accept the deposit in the first place. Why in the world should a puppy buyer have to wait to get their deposit back when they clearly aren't getting a puppy? What happens if she can't sell her puppies? Are the puppy buyers' permanently holding the bag? I just don't see it that being at all fair.


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Reply with quote  #35 

Teresa I guess the buyers were OK with giving her the deposit they could have said no. She has the puppies they can still have one. That is between Angie and the puppy buyer.


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Reply with quote  #36 
Two baby rules to live by:

1. Never have a baby shower before the birth.
2. Never pay a deposit on a litter that has not yet been born.

Personally I think it's unethical (or perhaps seriously unwise) to charge a deposit, Non-refundable or otherwise, before the pups are born and make it through the first 2-3 weeks at least. 

Sorry Mary, you have a kind heart and that's good. That means you haven't been screwed over very often, I'm happy for you and hope it stays that way!


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Reply with quote  #37 
...Ok, I just want to say you all are right, about everything.  You all have been supportive in your own ways.  Everyone is different and some people are able to keep giving everyone the benefit of the doubt and seeing the good in all people and there are others, for one reason or another, that are able to see through to another side of people.  Are either wrong or bad, nope.  I was a lot like Mary and I do always want to trust people.  I wish it worked like that.  And yes, I guess that does make me an easy target to be taken advantage of.  I unfortunately made a bad judgment call on my part for not having the intuitive sense that I was not making a good decision sending my deposit and maybe I should have spent more time speaking with other breeders to know it is not common (as she said) for breeders to take a deposit up front and of such a high amount of money.  Unfortunately, I was told that the dam, Maddy, that I was getting a puppy from was over 30 days pregnant when I gave my deposit 2/14, finding out now she is STILL pregnant and officially due like 4/25!!!  I was told that I would be able to bring home my new puppy mid May.  So, that's not happening.  I was misled.  I would have never put down a deposit for a puppy that was not even conceived yet, I'm no dummy.  The puppies that were born a week and a half ago (or at least, so I am told) are from Molly and Capone.  They were supposed to be due a week from 3/6, but were not born until 3/26, she said there was supposed to be 6 or 7 with one maybe hiding in there, however, she had 12.  Can a dog go 1 1/2 to 2 weeks past 63 days pregnant.  Maybe I just don't get it.  Also, where is ANY pics of this litter??  Someone asked her who the parents were of this litter and she responded that it is a co-owned bitch.  No names, nothing.  There are just so many inconsistencies that if there is eventually a female fawn puppy from Maddy and Bo, I am not interested at this point.  I have been through soooo much with all of this aggravation and deceit.  I don't know what I did to deserve this, but I am done with it all.  I just want to have my deposit returned to me, so I can move on and make this a happy journey for my family.  I too, had to talk to my kids about the puppy and fib to them about the situation.  They ask every day when the new puppy is coming home.  I just cannot deal with all of the drama that this business deal has entailed.  I put a deposit on a specific puppy, not the one I was being offered as a constellation prize.  Nothing is adding up for me.
 
I do thank all of you who have supported me from losing my mind the past couple of weeks.  You all were great.  And Mary is an awesome person and I appreciated all of the things she had done to help me out.  I never wanted to have to come up on a board and publicly speak out about anyone.  That is not who I am.  I kept giving the benefit of the doubt, but the doubt just kept coming out on top.  Everyone has the ability to make bad choices.  Do I think Angie is a bad person, no.  But I guess I don't really know.  However, when people are in certain positions and may not have many ways out of them, they may unintentionally make a bad decision and from there it could snowball until it has to stop somewhere...there, is here.  I feel for anyone who needs to use dishonesty to get through in life.  The whole situation is a sad one and I don't really think there is any clear winner here.  I hope she is able to sit down, make a plan to straighten out her business, get the sh*t all out on the table (be honest) and do her best to do the right thing by everyone.  I believe if she tries to do that, instead of being hard to find or hard to get in touch with, she may be forgiven and be respected for it.  One can only hope.
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Reply with quote  #38 

Is this process of finding breeder/pup supposed to be so stressful? I realize that no breeder can give a 100% guarantee, but its frustrating because when we think we have found someone....we seem to always be able to find supporters. Just as we get close we get info that makes us second guess. How do we know? I appreciate all the advice that has been given. Is every breeder who takes a deposit in the wrong? If there are health issues with a group of pups does is that the breeder's fault. If its not their fault and they have chosen to not breed those lines again...should we be interested in another one of the lines? (I am using terms like "lines" as though I know anything about it.)

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Reply with quote  #39 
Unfortunately, it can be stressful, but not nearly what you and Hope have experienced. I think the stressful part is thoroughly researching and really knowing who/what to believe. Sometimes, it's the waiting for the right puppy to come along that's so stressful. Just remember anything great is WORTH waiting for.
 
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If there are health issues with a group of pups does is that the breeder's fault. If its not their fault and they have chosen to not breed those lines again...should we be interested in another one of the lines? (I am using terms like "lines" as though I know anything about it.)

That's not always easy. First of all, if you ask the breeder about issues and they try to tell you they are no longer breeding "those" lines, do you believe them when it's very hard to confirm/deny? I've seen some breeders that will "say" that, but they really have continued to breed them. Incidently, what they are talking about in "lines" is pedigrees. All kinds of things can pop up from ANY breeder. It's truly HOW the issues are handled once they arise. There are issues in "lines" that can be bred away from and others than are strictly taboo to ever breed the sire/dam again ESPECIALLY if that sire/dam CONSISTENTLY throws a bad issue. Those issues are very opinion-oriented depending on the breeder. You'd just have to ask whoever you are talking to their opinion and compare it to other opinions.
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Is every breeder who takes a deposit in the wrong?
Deposits taken at the right time and under the right circumstances are totally fine (see Catie's post). RARELY, can I see a case where a deposit should be non-refundable.

Finally, I would strongly suggest you read ANY contract carefully. Many new people really get reamed by contracts (see pyramid sales). If there's something that seems odd, ask other breeders their opinion. Remember it's just an opinion, but it is a way to gauge whether it's standard of practice or not. If it sounds over-board to you, you may be in a bad contract. Always be able to "live" with the contract/deposit terms no matter what. If you can't feel comfortable with every aspect of a deposit/contract, please look for another breeder. One of the things I stress as much as possible is that a contract is SUPPOSED to be fair to all concerned and MOSTLY to protect the puppy.

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Reply with quote  #40 
Simply put.....sometimes a thief, is just a thief!

I hope that Angie doesn't hide behind her bankruptcy, or turn out to be a thief.

Time will tell!

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"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
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Reply with quote  #41 
***Correction should read..........a potential bankruptcy

not... her bankruptcy.

Edit button still not functional!

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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Reply with quote  #42 
A word of encouragement to those new to the breed:

I researched mastiffs for two years before getting my handsome young man.  I've been researching mastiffs for yet another two years and still have yet to to bring a young lady home. 

Take your time.

Do NOT be in a hurry.

Getting a new puppy is exciting, no doubt, but being in a hurry rarely results in a smooth ride!

Good luck to you!

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Reply with quote  #43 
And remember, don't let one bad experience ruin it for you. Take what you know from this situation and learn from it. You'll have more questions in your arsenal to ask of breeders. Maybe a few more qualifications YOU want from them. That's fine.

Purchasing a puppy is like any other purchase. If it's all "too much" (whether that's monetarily or a gut feeling or the requirements the breeder places on their puppy buyers), then you have every right to walk away.

But do know that there ARE fair breeders out there whose main priority is doing right by their puppies.

I've had my fair share of bad puppy buying experiences. I've learned some lessons along the way. If something doesn't feel right or seem right to you, it's probably not.

But when it all falls together just right, you'll have a wonderful puppy to bring home, and a life-long friend and support system in the breeder you got your puppy from.

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Reply with quote  #44 
There is some really good food for thought in this thread, thank you all for some great posts! I did my own personal battles with whether or not to accept puppy deposits before puppies were on the ground and decided against it for many of the reasons mentioned here (in spite of having one person insisting lol).

The one thing we can all agree on is that Mary ROCKS!!!!

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Reply with quote  #45 

Thank You Barrie


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Reply with quote  #46 
You are quite welcome Mary!
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Reply with quote  #47 
The road to finding the perfect puppy for your family is long and arduous for a reason, when you finally find the right breeder, and the right puppy, you will love it all the more when you get it home. I researched Mastiffs and breeders, and went to shows for a year and a half. Shoot I even "stalked" a couple of breeders. I have had a breeder back out of a sale, I have backed out of a sale, and then finally I found just the right dog. I have great communication with the breeder and the stud owner, and know that either of them are always there to answer a stupid question. I believe anything less than that is just settling.
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Reply with quote  #48 

Ok first off Mary and Deb and Gina i tryly thank you from the bottom of my heart for believimg in me and what kind of person I am!! Breanne you are a nasty bitch I cant stand what a nasty person you arte and what lies you have just wrote on here I bred my girl Morgan to Bo and long story short I was holding Maddys torn uterus inside her so she wouldnt bleed to death  I lost my mind I was so scared and I felt I caused this she almost didnt make through her surgery and 3 weeks after that we still werent sure she would make it I ran her to the ER Vet and my bill was $9000 a few of Morgans past puppy owners sent me $20 I was thankful but not necesary but very apreciated I can pay my own bills you do not know what I can affford finacilly and you all wonder why Gloria never asked for help geeshhhh I said that was it I am done breeding no more I am done i freaked out and lost my mind I was scared I was loosing my bitch so yes I had a moment!! Hope I feel so bad still and I told you this its really not anyones business and i dont post on these forums anymore because all it is a butchfest and to see who can stab who faster but they will see it for themselves after a few months of posting and they get turned om also it always happens so amyways I had phone troubles and internet I just got it back today and during all of this i even lost my cell but I did post it all over my FB account AND HAD A FRIEND DO IT ALSO so everyone knew what I was going through now Hope I guess wasnt a friend and it is my fault and I have told her it was my fault now ethertonhaverly is a nasty person and I pitty her new breeder my daughter is 12 I thought she had cancer my hubby is so sick that he is not doing well at all and yes I am not well either and because of all of this I am done I didnt even read all of the posts because emotionally I cant handle it right now and what pisses me off is where is everyone when I need help?????!!!!!!!! So i dont belong to the right click because I breed DRF dogs so I am nobody and I get trasged instead of helped not one person on here but Mary Jen Deb contact me and stick up for me from what I have read and no I didnt read everything and i wont yes Hope will get her deposit back she is a nice person and I wish her al the best now for my 12 puppies they are a coowned litter and not one puppy has made it I lost the enitre litter mom had herpes and passed to her puppies and I tried my best and so did my Vet but not one puppy made it so I honestly am not in a good place right now I need to stay away from this board if anyone has anything nice to say please post away but I really hope Linda wont let everyone bash me right now when I do not deserve one bit of it....ethertonhaverly I have your nasty emails you r a very nasty person!!!! she came her to smear told me she was going to take me down well you go right ahead because honestly I do not care my friends know I am honest and quite frankly you r hurting more than myself posting nastyness about me so please remember that!! Thank you Deb Mary Jen and Gina and Tina you all have been so great I will NEVER forget your kindness!! Now I will not be back do and say what you want but I am done...


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Reply with quote  #49 
I am so very sorry to Angie, I know how painful it is to lose an entire litter. I am sorry this all happened to you, I will be praying for you. As for what's going here, don't be too harsh; when it comes to money and promises people get very paranoid. It is the result of this age of technology, being able to do business with someone with out ever meeting them seems convenient but can also be very nerveracking. If I can give you some advice: My family is constantly under attack, I am a 20 year old girl that since the age of 14 has had to listen to various strangers say the nastiest things about my parents but the best thing to do is the rise above and turn the other cheek. Don't retaliate, don't call them names, just explain your side and move on. I understand your hurt and frustration but remember that people will always have their opinions but you just need to rise above. I sincerly hope you feel better.

As for everyone else, I understand how scary it is to deal with someone you don't know and having to trust them (especially with money) so I get how this got out of hand.

Communication and words are two VERY powerful things.

Kiss your mastiffs everyone and let's try and get along for their sake's.

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Reply with quote  #50 

Thank you Dani - words of wisdom from a very wise young lady!


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We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
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representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
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every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
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