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RDChilders

Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 5
Reply with quote  #51 
Mr. Massie and I did not get along at first.

When I first started calling him several years ago, he ran me off. He pokes and prods.

We do not swap slobber now. We understand and respect one another.
jmat73448

Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 3
Reply with quote  #52 
While I understand these consumer/ratings/review sites do contain simply opinions, I felt it my obligation to my late father to say a few words. YES, I said late.  Unfortunately, Waymond passed away June 9th. While some of your intentions were admirable, they were also misinformed.  Unfortunately, this thread of opinions only added to the heavy weight upon him.  My Father genuinly cared and was a great steward of this breed.  He went through great pains over the past several months trying to balance taking care of his terminally ill Mother-In-Law, a grandson, and coping with his own failing health.  I hope none of you are ever faced with such a huge burden; your spouse's parent passing while dealing with a terminal illness and dismantling a long time passionate hobby, so as to not burden the family left behind with an all consuming responsibility and continual financial obligation.

Although my Father was taking radiation treatments 5 days a week and chemo once a week and was too weak to do anything for several weeks, he made sure that his dogs were as well taken care of as if he was doing it himself.

Be rest assured to know that he was successful in finding loving homes prior to his passing and his family would appreciate this conversation coming to an end.

Sincerely,

His pround, loving, and devistated family
Teresa

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Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 4,139
Reply with quote  #53 
Condolences on the loss of your father.


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Align yourself with those with kind hearts, gentle spirits and honest intentions. Be a good friend and let good friends know how much they are valued! Live every day with the intention of doing what is right...
dirtpoor

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Registered: 02/19/10
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Reply with quote  #54 
my father also passed ultimately from cancer as well as some other conditions. there were several posts defending you father. but, there were many, many posts about how to help not only the dogs, but him as well, since he was looking to sell them. again, very sorry for your loss and glad the dogs found loving homes.
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Kristie in Texas
Proud mom of Daisy and Gunnar who live in Heaven with God and my daddy, Grace my silly clown who makes me laugh when I cry and every opportunity she thinks she can, Oliver who beat the odds and survived the impossible, Chigger, he's an a$$ but he's my little A$$....

And my new boy Elah!!!!!!
RDChilders

Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 5
Reply with quote  #55 
jmat73448, I am sorry about the loss of your father.

I purchased the puppy Amos from him a few months ago. (Mowgli)


He is someone I will miss.

R. D. Childers
512-826-1457
tatetori2

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Reply with quote  #56 

so sorry for the loss of your Dad.


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Mary and Cole
1dogsnob

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 73
Reply with quote  #57 
sorry for the loss of your father,
we were only trying to help the dogs here.  It's always just about the dogs...

courtney d
thousand oaks mastiffs 
melbill

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #58 

I want to take a minute and say I also have dealt with Mr. Massie and had nothing but a great expieriance with him.  At all times he was courtious, friendly and knowledgable about his dogs.  After months and months of back and forth i purchesed a beautiful female brindle puppy.  After taking her to our vet( a world famous breeder of Ridgebacks) she said Beatrice was an OUTSTANDING puppy with OUTSTANDING potential for breeding or show.  After checking her papers and breeding history our vet declared her pedigree as solid.  So to all you rescue jerks and those who say its not us being negative up yours.  This man was dieing of cancer and all you could do was hate and bash a man who had cancer you guys are a joke.  All I read was "I heard" or "I think"  second hand trash talk is pathetic and the people on this forum are the worst.  The one person who stepped forward to defend Mr. Massie is bashed and hated by you all because his opinion did not fit your vision of this man....pathetic.  And to whoever called and lied/tricked/decieved a man with cancer.....you suck.  Go ahead try to defend yourselves you losers.... you only wanted to bash bash bash instead of knowing the facts.  RIP Mr. Massie and to all you haters Ihope you are proud of this ype of behavior I will never ever ever ever donate to any rescue group because of the behavior of this forum.

Teresa

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Reply with quote  #59 
Dear Sir,
    I suggest you go back and read the entire thread before you send private RUDE emails out to those of us who were civil during this discourse. We are all very happy you have a nice puppy you love very much. We are all very sad that Mr Massey's family is going through this time of grief. There is certainly NO need to attack everyone who was concerned about the dogs during the past several months, especially those that were being polite and truly trying to HELP and understand.

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Align yourself with those with kind hearts, gentle spirits and honest intentions. Be a good friend and let good friends know how much they are valued! Live every day with the intention of doing what is right...
Tracy

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Registered: 05/30/06
Posts: 7,700
Reply with quote  #60 
actually melbill, there were several who stepped up and defended the fact he was trying to find homes for the dogs, and then another whose experience with him was not exactly the "for the animals" sentiment that was expressed. Ultimately it came down to the money. 
I am deeply sorry for the family's loss. He did feed and care for his dogs, which is better than some of the rescue dogs and situations that we work with do. It is a shame that you are unwilling to support rescue because of anothers dealings with them, and really as far as you know, that would only be the word of another you are trusting to be true.  There are always three sides to every story, your side, my side and the truth lies somewhere in the middle.  Take a look at rescue sites for mastiffs. There are more and more coming into rescue everyday, and we can only do this work with the help of people who care.  I am glad that you received a nice girl, but remember there are always more who don't find that wonderful home, and they will need our help. when we see someone who is "getting out" of mastiffs, we see alot more dogs that will need homes. It would be better if we could neuter and spay and place them into loving homes, then see them go to another place where they will be bred because someone thinks they can make money from them.
 It is about the dogs.

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If you dont rescue, Dont Breed.
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.
Albert Einstein
Ch Sherwood Ranchlands Friar Tuck
Ch Windypines ir Reginald Montgomery ( in heaven)
National and Internation and sooo close Ch Ranchlands Duecs Wild ( In heaven)
Windy Pines Mid-night Maxi ( In Heaven)
Pallone Ranchlands Diamond Lil ( In Heaven)
Winsomes Ranchlands Maid Marion
Ch. Ranchlands Windimup and Watchimgo
Ranchlands Amazing Grace
Ranchlands Kissed By An Angel
Ranchlands And The Beat Goes on'
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Sylvans My Cherie D"Amour at Ranchlands.
melbill

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #61 

Show me whee either of you defended the person!!!! Do not attempt to hide behind we wanted to help the dogs..three people including myself spoke with Mr. Massie and and one was a decietful liar who tricked a man with cancer. Show me where you called that person out for those actions.  Or called out anyone that criticized a person without ever haven spoken to them....did not happen on this thread so lets not try to rewrite history ...read the threads and show me "your concern for him"  noit anywhere is it..And theresa contacted the main defender of Mr. Massie and he describes her actions as ugly...wow you mastiff breeders are a class act.  H-i-p-p-o-c-r-i-t-e-s

MMc

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Registered: 07/06/06
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Reply with quote  #62 
You are very right the actions and behavior of some are disgusting. But thats human nature...we all say or do things that in hindsight we regret.
My condolences to Mr Massie's family. Very sad.

Some times the passion we have for mastiffs can make some say or do very harsh things. I dont think they are hypocrites...they are offering their condolences. And Im sure still DON'T agree with how the dogs were dealt with. Regardless, a beloved family member, father etc has passed and thats very sad and Im sorry for their loss.


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melbill

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #63 

Without talking to the man how does anyone know about the dogs or the outcome for the dogs.  These are dogs...period...not people dogs and we have a human with cancer now deceased and only one person stood up for the man.... all you mastiff people cared for was the dogs....they are animals.  So lets look at facts and not sugercoat everyones actions by saying we cared for the dogs where were all your sorrys and concerns when the man was alive and it could have done some good and comforted him...bogus BS and you all know it shameful and disgusting

dirtpoor

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Registered: 02/19/10
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Reply with quote  #64 
Teresa, you must have gotten the same PM as me. I did go back and re-read the posts, and we were all trying find a way to help the dogs. I am sorry for his death. I would haven given everything I owned to get one more day with my dad.
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Kristie in Texas
Proud mom of Daisy and Gunnar who live in Heaven with God and my daddy, Grace my silly clown who makes me laugh when I cry and every opportunity she thinks she can, Oliver who beat the odds and survived the impossible, Chigger, he's an a$$ but he's my little A$$....

And my new boy Elah!!!!!!
MMc

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Reply with quote  #65 
You are right, they are dogs. BUT the fact he was ill ( which is tragic) that makes them not worth as much anymore? If someone is selling dogs REGARDLESS of the reason..for 400. with out without papers, Im going to disagree with that. Why? Any Tom Dick or Harry can afford to get one them big dogs and do whatever. With no time invested on learning about the breed..why because after all its just 400. who cares.

Then when these dogs don't work out or act out..they end up in rescue or on the news " MASTIFF bites child"

Sure I bet some great people got a wonderful dog. But some not so great people who are good liars also could have. And I feel that posting ads all over the internet you will bring A LOT of these not so great people.




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Teresa

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Reply with quote  #66 
Quote:
And theresa contacted the main defender of Mr. Massie and he describes her actions as ugly...wow you mastiff breeders are a class act.  H-i-p-p-o-c-r-i-t-e-s


Would you PLEASE like to remind me about this because I don't remember any interaction that was "ugly". This is what I said to Mr Childers:
Quote:
  I do not mean to be ugly to you and I hope you don't take it that way, but I have such a hard time buying that any reputable rescue group would call and cuss him out. After all, seriously, that would NOT be the way to offer assistance or instill a good, trusting relationship. As a rule, rescue has a responsibility to put all personal feelings aside and just do right by the dogs and alienating the owners doesn't sound like the right thing to do for the dogs.

Also, I'm very happy that he has help in caring for his dogs and that you have seen that they are all well taken care of for the time being. I think that is our main concern as Mastiff lovers.

I do understand wanting to sell them for a reasonable amount to be sure he weeds out those that just want a "cheap" pet, BUT I think they should all go out on limited registration, but that's just my opinion. When you start selling adult, breeding age animals, the byb will pop out of the wood work and often have the most convincing "stories". It would be really hard for me to trust anyone wanting a "full registration adult" unless I knew them very well LONG before this issue arose.

I hope he and his family are coping well and we wish well for the family and the dogs. I am glad the numbers are much lower than originally posted. I also hope all the dogs find wonderful and loving homes.


__________________
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Align yourself with those with kind hearts, gentle spirits and honest intentions. Be a good friend and let good friends know how much they are valued! Live every day with the intention of doing what is right...
Tracy

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Registered: 05/30/06
Posts: 7,700
Reply with quote  #67 
melbill, you did not see me enter to any of the issues at all, so unless you misread EVERYTHING I wrote you probably need to issue an apology to me.  I did not defend him or condem him, I am just one of those prepared to pick up the pieces when the dogs end up in rescue, if they do end up in rescue, because successfully breeding mastiffs is not exactly a financial moneymaker!
You come onto a mastiff board and sak why we care about the animals??  try actually going back and reading the entire thread. There are some who condemed him, but not all did. Take a look at the number of hits on the thread, that tells you how many of us read it, and did not comment. Again, I am sorry for his family's loss, death of any creature be it human or animal hurts all of us in some way or another.  Take your anger and place it in  a place where you can educate people with it. Rescue is real, and happens everyday. Take your beautiful new brindle girl and help save others that are not as fortunate as she is.
Is there people on here who conducted themselves poorly, you bet, but you just added yourself to that list.

__________________
Ranchlands Mastiffs
http://www.ranchlandsmastiffs.com
Member MCOA, SSMF, FAME
Rescue Volunteer SSMR
If you dont rescue, Dont Breed.
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.
Albert Einstein
Ch Sherwood Ranchlands Friar Tuck
Ch Windypines ir Reginald Montgomery ( in heaven)
National and Internation and sooo close Ch Ranchlands Duecs Wild ( In heaven)
Windy Pines Mid-night Maxi ( In Heaven)
Pallone Ranchlands Diamond Lil ( In Heaven)
Winsomes Ranchlands Maid Marion
Ch. Ranchlands Windimup and Watchimgo
Ranchlands Amazing Grace
Ranchlands Kissed By An Angel
Ranchlands And The Beat Goes on'
Ranchlands Truly Scrumptious
Ranchlands Rumor Has It
Sylvans My Cherie D"Amour at Ranchlands.
AndrewC

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Posts: 628
Reply with quote  #68 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtpoor
I really, really, really hope Mastiff Rescue can convince him the best and most selfless thing he can do for the Mastiffs that have obviously given him so much, is to turn them over to rescue for free where they can be spayed/neutered and given to loving pet homes. I will PRAY for this!


 This is a great idea!

 Praying that for one this man find himself some help with his cancer and two that ALL of these Mastiffs find the RIGHT homes. God forbid any of them go to homes that are neglectful or abusive! This is a shame... Maybe also pray that this man finds the answers and the guidance to Never put any animal in this situation again. It's Very sad that people can sometimes let their passion blind their responsibilities and capabilities of making proper decisions.....

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SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #69 
What Mr. Melbil doesn't understand, is that we are all inundated by dozens of similar stories like this all of the time!

So when it seems like another negative story begins to unfold, some of us may go on automatic and give a stock response.

I gave one, and simply said that "anyone can be a breeder".

That was a generalized view, since I didn't know this individual at all. It could apply to anyone that does a poor job at handling their affairs in Mastiffs.

Quote:

Anyone can be a breeder...especially an idiot like yourselve Mr. Holier than thou loser like steve oifer.


I don't know if the response suits the crime, but Mr. Melbil has certainly taken it to another level, as far as I can tell!

Concerned Mastiff folks, have to pick up the crap left behind by breeders of less than honorable mention. Some of those are the same people that you have selected to berate in your PM's. Unless you fully understand why an initial gut reaction has taken place, I suggest that you become a bit less critical towards those you have PM'd in such a base fashion.

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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
1dogsnob

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 73
Reply with quote  #70 
WOW is all i can say.

i feel partly responsible for starting this thread many months ago. 

i didn't know this "breeder" and quite frankly would not have wanted to.  All i know is that someone notified me about him all his dogs and his declining health.  It's always about the dogs. When he knew his health was declining he could have reached out and received some help w/placements. 

i have been told by the oklahoma rescue coordinator that he not only had mastiffs, but other breeds as well.  They had first hand experience of buying dogs from him (to rescue) and placing other dogs that he had bred.  Once again, us who rescue are just about the dogs. 

it's sad that he has gone, but life is a gift that we are given.  i personally wouldn't want my dogs to be a burden onto my surviving family members, only if they wanted them.  I wouldn't want to walk a day in his shoes. 

life is all about choices, and he CHOSE to have the amount of dogs he did.  I just pray that they all went to good homes. 

I'm also curious about your rhodesian vet friend.  Are they also real knowledgable about mastiffs to know pedigrees? 

We in Texas take pride in HELPING other mastiff owners, people who LOVE their dogs and not just those who show their dogs.  Some of the people you have attacked are very dedicated to this breed and only want to protect it.

Yes we are fanatical about helping mastiffs.....Are you?

courtney d
thousand oaks mastiffs
melbill

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #71 

I do not owe anyone an apology....after reading all your posts its more bs justification for your actio...or lack thereof...you all say we got a call or we have seen lots of dogs...first line of this thread is..."some idiot in OKLAHOMA" did any one say how do you know he was an idiot...and Steve saying anyone can be a breeder..and referances to his cancer being karmha...and someone who lied and decieved a man with cancer...where were all you backpedelers then...know you want to turn your anger on me...and blame me for the way the thread worked out...NONE OF YOU EVER TALKED TO THE MAN...NONE AND YET YOU SAY WE WERE COPNCERNED WITH THE DOGS....why would you be concerned for the dogs you had no idea how the dogs were treated or lived or anything because you didnt talk to the man..all second hand BS talk so for all you back pedelers if you want to absolve yourselves and claim oh its about the man and know want to turn your ugliness at me it truly shows your classless nature...Tracy at any point did you say why are you bashing the man or lets not talk about a dying man that way...no so no apology to you becuase you enabled this behavior...and for the rest who responded it shows you true character that not one apoligized for your comments until he was dead....so again justify justify justify sad sad sad the group of haters on this board is pathetic so are you enablers who did not have the courage or decency to stand up and say this talk is bs and detrimental a man is dead and none of you has seen or rescued or helped any of the dogs you know why...because they do not nor did the ever need the kind of help you bellowed out for..and the negativity of this board and the enablers who allowed it to go on gained nothing but hurting a sick and dying man...CLASSY

melbill

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #72 

And to courtney your sorry for starting the thread but not to the man you bashed and criticized...your friend?  did you talk to the man himself or all second hand info from your friend huh so if i say I heard thousand oaks mastiffs suck and its apuppy mill should I start a thread about you and your operation...how would that feel if the things you and others said were said about you you would be devestated and that what you started with this man....MASTIFFS are animals not people and no i am not fanatical about rescuing mastiffs when we have children who go to bed sick and hungry each night and jkids dying of disease we have no cure for or people with families and friends dying or sick in Texas,CA

melbill

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #73 

and Steve don't say I don't understand..what I do understand is you attempting to justify your response..was it a response you made after speaking with him or just your general I AM A HOLIER THAN THOU BREEDER..again before you posted your BS comment which in context of the thread was clearly directed at Mr. Massey did you gather your facts talk to him talk to people who had dealt with him or what..did you see another oppotunity to prove how superlative you are as breeder while he was not... your explanation of it being a "generel statement " shows how sad you are..and to all you bashers you are the problem...you started this thread and perpetuated it despite not having or knowing the facts end of sentence thats the problem not only here but everywhere..

Teresa

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Reply with quote  #74 
Guy, first, YOU have a problem, not us. Many of the circumstances surrounding Mr. Massey were very reminiscent of rescue situations several of us have been forced to deal with. I say forced because seeing Mastiffs in horrible shape is NOT something any of us LOVE to see happen...it's heart wrenching. Most of those situations come from backyard breeders who have shoddy pedigrees, spotty health testing if any, and just throw whatever male and female they happen to have on the property together. They amass several dogs then when things go awry, the dogs suffer. We were all worried this was the typical case AND, if you'd bother to read carefully, someone DID contact Mr. Massey and his answers ALL sounded like they typical "I just want to make money of my dogs" reply, so though I'm sorry he passed and I'm sorry his family is suffering, I DO NOT think he was an upstanding breeder who had the breeds best interest at heart. And, I do think there were many things that people who CARE ABOUT THE DOGS had reason to be concerned. And, like it or not buddy, humans can care for themselves even when ill (with family help). The dogs are at the whim of who ever is there or NOT there to care for them, so YES, IT IS ABOUT THE DOGS with most of us because they are the helpless ones!

Now, I'm kind of glad you mentioned Courtney because it give me the opportunity to compare and contrast Mr. Massey's operation and Courtney's program. Courney has great pedigrees, health test wonderfully, sells on contracts only to qualified home, shows her dogs, is active in two Mastiff association, and takes every opportunity educate newbies. Courtney doesn't breed all that often, but when she does, it's a NICE BREEDING and she's picky about the homes her babies go to. She CARES about the breed, not about pumping out puppies to make money. Now, can you say Mr. Massey had done ANY OF THESE THINGS EXCEPT cash in on being a backyard breeder? Did his dogs fit the standard for the breed such that they SHOULD have been breed? How well health tested were they and how careful was he about the homes he sold his puppies to? SO, you see, dead or alive, his legacy is what he made it. And none of us here are to blame for that!

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Align yourself with those with kind hearts, gentle spirits and honest intentions. Be a good friend and let good friends know how much they are valued! Live every day with the intention of doing what is right...
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #75 
Melbil,

There are over 7000 Mastiffs registered in the USA alone, and most of them are from breeders that few on these threads will ever have any contact with. So my statement stands, ......."anyone can be a breeder"!

With the flood of unwanted Mastiffs growing every year, it's up to those that are producing these unwanted dogs to step forward and explain themselves, not the other-way about!

You can view me any way you please, but it doesn't change the onus probandi of responsibility for those abandoned and unwanted Mastiffs!



__________________
For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
Tracy

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Registered: 05/30/06
Posts: 7,700
Reply with quote  #76 
nope I did not defend him, dont know him, wont defend someone I do not know.  I have not back peddled, not my style.  You are so hell bent on defending this situation, your choice not mine.  I walk the walk in rescue, I see this same situation over and over, so if it smells like a duck, walks like a duck, its probably a duck!
 If people were unhappy with the way he was finding homes for these dogs they have every right to come out and say so. as far as I know this is still america, and we still have a right to our opinion. 

__________________
Ranchlands Mastiffs
http://www.ranchlandsmastiffs.com
Member MCOA, SSMF, FAME
Rescue Volunteer SSMR
If you dont rescue, Dont Breed.
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.
Albert Einstein
Ch Sherwood Ranchlands Friar Tuck
Ch Windypines ir Reginald Montgomery ( in heaven)
National and Internation and sooo close Ch Ranchlands Duecs Wild ( In heaven)
Windy Pines Mid-night Maxi ( In Heaven)
Pallone Ranchlands Diamond Lil ( In Heaven)
Winsomes Ranchlands Maid Marion
Ch. Ranchlands Windimup and Watchimgo
Ranchlands Amazing Grace
Ranchlands Kissed By An Angel
Ranchlands And The Beat Goes on'
Ranchlands Truly Scrumptious
Ranchlands Rumor Has It
Sylvans My Cherie D"Amour at Ranchlands.
melbill

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #77 

My question to all you who are giving me facts and your lame reasoning for  what you did and how you acted is at any point did any of you have any first hand info or knowledge or had been informed by Mr. Massie that in any way these dogs needed rescue? Or did you join this thread and the Bashing of Mr. Massie based only on the word of miss thousand oaks?  We all know the answer so whatever knowledge or facts you possess about mastiff rescues and the statistics the REAL FACT OF THIS SITUATION IS NONE OF YOU HAD ANY FACTS... IN FACT THE ONLY THING YOU BASED YOUR COMMENTARY ON WAS INNUENDO AND SECOND HAND BS INFO.

melbill

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #78 

TRACY YOU ARE THE WORST OF THE HIPPOCRITES HOW CAN YOU COMPARE ANYTHING TO MR. MASSIES OPERATION YOU NEVER SAW IT OR SPOKE WITH HIM .....SO STOP GIVING ME WE HAVE DEALT WITH MANY SITUATIONS...YOU ALL KNOW WHAT YOU DID AND ARE FIGHTING PRETTY HARD TO DEFEND WHY YOU ARE NOT WRONG...WEAK MINDS AND SPIRITS CANNOT ADMIT THEY ARE WRONG

austinmastiff

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 90
Reply with quote  #79 
Get a life.
Find another forum to rant on.
Teresa

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Reply with quote  #80 
Quote:
YOU ALL KNOW WHAT YOU DID AND ARE FIGHTING PRETTY HARD TO DEFEND WHY YOU ARE NOT WRONG...WEAK MINDS AND SPIRITS CANNOT ADMIT THEY ARE WRONG

Look in the mirror, melbill. Maybe you'll see your own quote staring back at you.

 You have NOT defended your friend at all. You have just hurled insults at people who do a great job protecting our beloved breed.  Instead of hurling insults, why  don't you impart great pearls of wisdom upon these "weak minds and spirits" as to how we were SO mistaken about what a great breeder your friend was?
 Did he health test? Did he breed only Mastiffs that fit the standard? Was he active in the Mastiff community to better the breed? Did he carefully screen the homes he sold his puppies to? Did he require a strict contract to insure the safety, well-being and future of the puppy? Did he offer any kind of health guarantee? Did he insist on any puppy that is displaced for any reason be required to returned to him? Did he encourage good socialization? Did he breed for temperament, health and conformation or did he just breed? Did he follow up on WHERE all his puppies were to the best of his ability or was it more like "out of sight, out of mind"? ANYONE can breed dogs, but it take a great deal of sacrifice, a very large financial commitment and a huge labor of love to be A BREEDER. Now, if you want to hurl insults instead of defend your friend, go right ahead. But if you truly want to DEFEND HIM, then answer my questions..otherwise you words are very hollow... 

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Reply with quote  #81 
well if I am a hippocrite so are you!! you havent seen my operation, you havent done any rescue, you havent run a humane society, you havent cared for those who need our help the most, those who cannot speak for themselves.  So if I am a hippocrite with those dealings I wear the badge proudly!!!
At

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melbill

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #82 
Tracy I never defended him at all just pointed out the hippocracy of you and courtney and the rest of your Mastiff rescue haters.  How am I a hippocrite I have not critcized anyones operation only your sad personal traits which you all decided to air on this board...I am sure there are people impressed by your credentials but not me what you did and how you acted is a joke..This will be my last post I am done dealing with your type in the dog worls...unfounded rumor and speculation about another person...great personal qualities to have...bet you are proud of yourself but how about Mr. Massies feelings your friend/compadre courtney started the thread some idiot from OK  did you stop her or say thats not needed or wanted on these boards? no you went along so now you turn your anger to me....grow up and learn from the expieriance and stop your 3rd grade behind the back whispers and innuendo...step up say we were wqrong and move on...and Austin Mastiff did you have any facts before you gotr on this board or you just want to jump in and be a part of the bashing of a person you my dog lover are the problem ...you lied and decieved a sick and cancer ridden manAUSTINMIKE YOU ARE IGNORANT/ARROGANT/MEANSPIRITED.

 I think you all know what I am saying is right because not one of you  NOT ONE OF YOU has answered what facts you had about this man and his operation......BECAUSE NONE OF YOU HAD ANY...SO BEFORE ANYONE ELSE ATTEMPTS TO BLAME ME OR JUSTIFY THEIR ACTION ANSWER THAT QUESTION OR STAY OFF THE BOARD BECAUSE NONE OF YOU HAD ANY INFO
austinmastiff

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 90
Reply with quote  #83 
You can keep me out of this. Stop slandering me and EVERYONE ELSE on this board that tried to help.  You don't know me at all.  I did nothing wrong (nor did the others that tried to help the dogs). Have you heard of a "secret shopper?"  That's the kind of call I placed to Mr. Massey.  I was trying to find out what he was up to based, on the rumors I had heard.  He pretty much confirmed it and everything I said about our phone call was true.

I owe you no explanation.

You are acting completely inappropriately. Grow up, get a life, and go away... please!

Mandie

melbill

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #84 

so lieing and being decietful which you clwearly stated you did is appropriate behavior...interesting mike you to arte a class act and please explain how i have slandered anyone...cant because i have not...only repeated what you wrote and commented on as anyone who can see a deicetful liar for what they are and that would be you...secret shopper ha ha ha decietful liar yea thats what most people call it liar liar liar and you said so yourself would you like me to repeat what you said on your post ha ha your own words buddy do you teach your kids or friends to lie when its ok so as long as someone can justify thier lies it makes it ok yea ok

SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #85 
I've also called "breeders" to see what they were about and posed as a potential buyer.

It's called getting to the truth in order to warn buyers of potential mistakes.

These breeders are usually clueless, or outright deceptive, and fighting fire with fire is not a broken commandment!

Especially, when it's for the benefit & welfare of the general community!

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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
melbill

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #86 
Mike here is the definition of Slander:Slander is the spoken or transitory form of defamation of character -isn'yt that how this thread got started when Miss thousand oaks called Mr. Massie and idiot? That mike is slander because she had no facts or information or knowledge of events that would anyway allow her to make this claim...rereading your posts i do not see anywhere that you called her a slanderer or said what she said was slander...why, please explain..oh you can't because you did not so drop the holier than thou routine you are a self admitted decietful liar:

your words "Yes, I personally put in a bogus call, attempting to purchase a dog (knowing he would not work with rescue"

Bogus call?  oh you mean you lied and decieved a man with cancer ...gotcha!!

Great ethics and morals
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Reply with quote  #87 

Other famous liars.................


Quote:

Although Solomon was young, he soon became known for his wisdom. The first and most famous incident of his cleverness as a judge was when two women came to his court with a baby whom both women claimed as their own. Solomon threatened to split the baby in half. One woman was prepared to accept the decision, but the other begged the King to give the live baby to the other woman. Solomen then knew the second woman was the mother.


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
melbill

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #88 

Steve you never attempted to call him to obtain information in an above board manor and thats the truth... so you are saying that we should assume because a fellow breeder makes a claim-unsubstantiated claim-that opens the doors to slander and lie about a person.  So it would then be ok under your guidelines of truth to say--there is a guy austinmike who has posted almost 14500 times on a mastiff website this must mean he is unemployed with nothing better to do with his time but lie and deceive sick aging people...no because i do not know you and wouldn't say that -14500 really???????????

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Reply with quote  #89 

Well,if you had said that "anyone can be a poster", you would be correct!


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
melbill

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #90 

THE BIBLE?  you got to be kidding me and the old testament at that...do we want to get into absurd versus of the old testament because we could go for week...stoning women, sacrificing sheep and other animals the list goes on so do not try the bible... and what about bearing false witness or lying or being deceitful how does that play out in the bible? and does it say anywhere in the bible that Solomon would not have split the baby...it does not so are you now a mind reader of dead Israeli kings/rulers from over 3000 years ago

austinmastiff

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 90
Reply with quote  #91 
My name is Mandie, not Mike.  And, it's AustinMastiff, not AustinMike.

Mandie
1dogsnob

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 73
Reply with quote  #92 
lol mandie!

crack me up girl!

it's courtney not miss thousand oaks.....

courtney d
thousand oak mastiffs 
dirtpoor

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Reply with quote  #93 
Mandie! LMAO!! !!!
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Proud mom of Daisy and Gunnar who live in Heaven with God and my daddy, Grace my silly clown who makes me laugh when I cry and every opportunity she thinks she can, Oliver who beat the odds and survived the impossible, Chigger, he's an a$$ but he's my little A$$....

And my new boy Elah!!!!!!
melbill

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #94 

I would say your handle DOGSNOB describes you pretty accuratly miss thousand oaks you started this with your unsubstantiated slander-not one word of admitting that your dog zealotry pushed aside the truth and caused more harm than good... and still none has answered the pertinent question-based on what facts did you base your assesment of this none IT WAS ALL HEARSAY..you throw around the Bible so please answer what does the bible say about lying, deciet, and treatment of the aged and infirm..and did your actions follow these teachings?  thats hippocritical when you claim the bible as your guide but ignore all the real important issues in there that don't fit your narritive one word HIPPOCRITICAL please dispute if you can.  YOU SEEM TO BE FAIRLY QUICK AND ACTIVE ON THE BOARD SO PLEASE RESPOND DIRECTLY TO THE QUESTIONS ASKED ABOVE IN THIS POST

MMc

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Reply with quote  #95 
Im not one to pick on spelling, lord knows I'm guilty of it.

But for the love of Pete...its HYPOCRITE not HIPPOCRITE.




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SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #96 
Melbil,

I believe it was you who berated someone for calling a breeder on the phone posing as a potential buyer, to uncover a potential puppy-miller.

It was you who stated that she was a liar for doing so!

Now to backtrack, you would view Solomon's famous fib as a figment of my imagination, since I never questioned him in person, or read his mind.

Convoluted thinking is what brings you to your erroneous conclusions.......

Quote:
does it say anywhere in the bible that Solomon would not have split the baby...it does not so are you now a mind reader of dead Israeli kings/rulers from over 3000 years ago


We can only prove what someone has done, not what they may have done. So neither you nor I can use that above example in order to validate your premise. 

In order for you to be correct about Solomon not lying, you are saying that he would have had to cut the baby in two if the woman had not stepped forward. You then propose that we can't read Solomon's mind and therefore, he may not have used the lie at all in order to determine true parantage by fooling the thief!

Why threaten to cut the child in half?

What would it serve other than to test for the true parent!

One reason why the story is famous and has survived for thousands of years, even if fabled!

Testing for the truth by deception, is not dishonorable if the end result is noble!

Liars can have evil intentions, but many liars don't have evil intentions!

The key is in understanding the motivations for a lie, in order to see the difference.



__________________
For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
melbill

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 35
Reply with quote  #97 
Steve a lie is a lie is a lie no matter what context you want to use to justify your actions you lied to a sick man you deceived him about your intentions..a older man that was sick and dying of cancer...so no matter how you want to make what you actually did look honorable and in the end  its a lie..and the validity of the story of Solomon to justify these actions..

QUOTE: Testing for the truth by deception, is not dishonorable if the end result is noble!
 
what about this result do you see as noble? You have hurt an older dying man to satisfy your curiosity...Well what did you find out? did you save any dogs? purchase any to help him if that is what he needed? What about your actions can we view as noble you accomplished nothing but deceit and lies no real result came of what you did therefore how could we view it as noble

Quote:Liars can have evil intentions, but many liars don't have evil intentions!

Intention does not make a lie not a lie...it is still a lie.. intentions are only
there to attempt to justify a....LIE!!

Quote:The key is in understanding the motivations for a lie, in order to see the difference.

Again Motivation has no bearing on weather a lie is a lie..motivation is the weakness of mind that is attempting to justify that the lie they told is OK because its justified... your logic is wrong and your premise is wrong when you lie there has to be internal justification from the individual who lied because we all know a lie is wrong...justification seems to make it alright or more easy to tolerate...in the end you lied and were deceptive to a sick and dying man to justify your view of him and what he was doing...tell me Steve in what court of law is lying admissible or justified despite ones motivation? nowhere because in the end a lie is a lie is a lie  which then makes you a ....LIAR.
dirtpoor

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Reply with quote  #98 
Ok. Melbill since I can't do it from my phone, feel free to copy and paste then post all of my posts from this thread. Rip them to shreds with what you take from them, and then be done with it. This is a forum devoted to Mastiffs, not to who Melbill hates and or why.
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Kristie in Texas
Proud mom of Daisy and Gunnar who live in Heaven with God and my daddy, Grace my silly clown who makes me laugh when I cry and every opportunity she thinks she can, Oliver who beat the odds and survived the impossible, Chigger, he's an a$$ but he's my little A$$....

And my new boy Elah!!!!!!
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #99 
If I told you that you were thinking clearly, you would be right!

Look, you appear to have a black & white view of the world locked in rigid thinking.

I gave you Solomon's example to show that all lies aren't evil.

You rejected that!

In your world, all lies are evil.

Therefore, if your logic is correct, all liars must be evil, even Solomon!

A generalized statement, such as "anyone can be a breeder" is the same as "anyone can be a poster".  It doesn't matter if it may apply in fact to any individual. It doesn't mean that if someone proved themselves otherwise it would stick!

The main point being, in this day & age, the burden of proof (onus probandi) is the responsibility of the breeder of dogs to prove otherwise.

In case you've missed it, we have an ongoing thread involving a missing person and the questions raised need answers before believability can be established. Until then, there are suspicions that need addressing. Likewise, in this case, there are too many breeders producing cheap puppies at any price for profits. If someone has had a history of this in Mastiffs, or in any other breed they have been engaged with, the burden of proof must come from the breeder to offset any charges.

I don't know this individual of yours and I've had no contact, past or present, with anyone involved in his breedings. I made no accusations other than to state the obvious, as a reply to previous posters that seemed to know of this individual. If someone drives too fast I might say that, "anyone can get a license"! That doesn't mean the driver has a bad record of accidents, or is a bad driver. They might be professional drivers for all I know, but the statement, "anyone can get a license" could still be used without globalizing the person behind the wheel. It's a reaction to a perceived event. Which doesn't make the one who makes the statement a liar!

If you read your responses toward me, you will see a lot more venom from you than what I originally posted (i.e. "anyone can be a breeder")!
You can then ask yourself the same question that you are now asking me, since your saying a lot more about me than I ever did about the person whom you are defending.

Should I call you a liar, or worse?

__________________
For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
SteveOifer

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Posts: 25,479
Reply with quote  #100 
Melbil, perhaps you need to fully understand what is expressed in this site.....

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html

Breeders owe the public an explanation of just who they are, and it's one reason why so many changes are taking place within the dog world community as a whole.

Left unattended, abuse is the result. This gave rise to puppy-mills and other less than scrupulous individuals, breeding solely for profits above all else.

That's why the burden of proof now falls on the breeder and rightly so!

If some have publicly claimed, having a less than optimum experience with a breeder, most breeders will respond with a strong retort if they have evidence to the contrary.

It's the state of the community that sets the placement of responsibility in proving allegations, and in the dog community, that responsibility has shifted to the breeder at present.

In Europe it has taken on dramatic proportions and has radically changed they way purebred dogs are now being bred.

Something to ponder between black & white concepts Melbil, A/K/A shades of grey!

__________________
For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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