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I'm wondering about a couple of things

1.- The 15 alfalfa tablets are how many mg total? The ones I got are 1200mg per tab.

2.- Wheat Germ oil, I could only find a very small bottle and wondering what size other people have bought or is it better to get it in caps?



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"tractor supply store"
garnews

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You are all right about the horse store to get the Wheat grem oil.. I get Alfalfa  tabs that are 650mg.. So if you get the stronger ones just give a few less.. I never really count them I just pour some in my hand and toss in the food..  ( have any of you seen my hands..HAHAHAHA ! )  So I am sure I have given more then 20 many times..

This diet is for the complete dog from skin to bones to the joints.  I could tell you all stories for days on how this diet has helped MANY MANY dogs in my life time.. Not just mastiffs..

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Patty,

Do you just feed to all puppies or only when they have symptoms?? 

Also do you think that it could help older guys who are getting a bit "gimpy"  ??

Nancy

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I suggest to all my new puppy owners to feed it.. I only feed it when I see they need it on females I do feed it to all my males I raise.

 

I know it will never hurt an older dog and maybe even do them some good.

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Patty, is this the recipe that you told me I can use Missing Link for instead?  If it is, all my dogs have done very well with it.  And the Missing Link is VERY Convenient, too!


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BUMP  for the "pano " recipe. 

Nancy

Thanks for the answer Patty --just might try it on my old rescue girl.  (who must be at least 10 yrs old now)

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Patty's remedy for limping pups:

15-20 alfalfa tablets
10-15 cod liver oil capsules
2-4 tablespoons of wheat germ oil (can be a blend)
2 raw eggs
2 huge tablespoons of plain yogurt
2 acidophilus capsules or Lethecin granules 1 teaspoon
Mix all ingredients together and pour over puppy's food
can be given all at once or half in the morning, half in the afternoon

I recommended this for the pup's first year.  I also ask that you write down on a calender the day you start the diet and the day you don't see them limp.....



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Reply with quote  #9 
Patty Wrote:
"I recommended this for the pup's first year. I also ask that you write down on a calender the day you start the diet and the day you don't see them limp....."

Hi Patty - well from this thread I started the formula on or a day or so before the 2nd of Dec...............I was not home when Ernie stopped limping but his caretaker told me he stopped limping 4 days after I left on Dec 6th.

Started formula Dec 1st
Puppy stopped limping Dec 10th


Thank You Patty!!!!!!!!

garnews

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THIS IS SOOO COOL !!!! I Just love it when I hear it worked ONE MORE TIME !!!  Good luck with your baby... Please keep us posted.. 

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Reply with quote  #11 

Hi Patty,

My only concern with the ingredients in your formula are the raw eggs!

 

 "It is not clear that Salmonella does not affect dogs in a negative way. Most dogs do not get serious Salmonella infections, but that is probably because they do not usually get large doses of infected food/water as might occur if fed raw chicken. Furthermore, dogs can be carriers of Salmonella. so infected dogs can be a serious risk for human health. (Also note that raw chicken may lead to Campylobacter infections as well as Salmonella infections.)

There is ample epidemological evidence that dog feces may be an important source of environmental contamination, and spread of Salmonella to humans (try a search of PubMed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov>for the keywords Salmonella AND dog). One reference directly related to inclusion of raw chicken in dogfood is:

Can Vet J 2002 Jun;43(6):441-2 Preliminary assessment of the risk of Salmonella infection in dogs fed raw chicken diets. Joffe DJ, Schlesinger DP.

Also note the following reference that mentions the incidence of disease in dogs:

Vaccine 2002 Feb 22;20(11-12):1618-23 Immunogenicity of chi4127 phoP- Salmonella enterica serovar Typhimurium in dogs. McVey DS, Chengappa MM, Mosier DE, Stone GG, Oberst RD, Sylte MJ, Gabbert NM, Kelly-Aehle SM, Curtiss R. "Salmonellae are commonly isolated from dogs. The number of dogs infected with Salmonella spp. is surprisingly high and greater than the incidence of clinical disease would suggest. Salmonellosis is common in greyhound kennels. Morbidity can approach 100% in puppies and the mortality ranges to nearly 40%."

Bleach is an effective disinfectant of the countertop, but it is essential that the area is thoroughly cleaned because the bleach may not effectively penetrate any dried residue."


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"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
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Reply with quote  #12 

Hmm,

 

If salmonella were just a plague then most raw fed dogs should be dead as most people feed raw chicken as the staple of their diet.


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Reply with quote  #13 
I really don't believe it's a serious issue (as in MHO), not formed out of ignorance either  - I know because of raw feeding and looked into it a whole bunch (meaning too much) - I have more important things to worry about than salmonella. BTW the only time in my 13 years of feeding dogs that they have gotten seriously sick was from contaminated wheat inside a bag of "great" quality dog food. I've also heard that spinach is very dangerous as well....but I'll take my chances. Knock on wood and I'm not trying to tempt the salmonella gods or anything - now I must go make my daily offerings and sacrifices to them to keep them at bay


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Reply with quote  #14 

Older dogs can tolerate the bug better than puppies and if you saw the mortality rate I posted for pups, you might think twice.


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!


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Reply with quote  #15 
i think it's similar to the whole vaccination issue/debate (kids not dogs although dogs as well) and other types of debates that run alone those lines...some Breeders wean with raw - good breeders I'm talking here....there are always pros and cons to weigh/consider in life. Benefits v. possible threats etc. I can't imagine any of the raw breeders would be happy to loose a litter to salmonella, therefore I think much thought and education goes into the decision. Imagine one raw chicken killing a finely planned breeding with all pups having good homes lined up, loosing your future stud/brood bitch etc... Oops, sorry I killed all my puppies - Not only am I completely heart broken but I just lost $20,000 plus as well. Knock on wood again.....this a big topic in raw circles, no one takes it lightly yet many still chose raw - intelligent, informed and responsible people to boot.
http://k9joy.com/dogarticles/doghealth01salmonella.pdf



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Reply with quote  #16 

There's a reason why all hamburger joints in NJ must sell their burgers well done!

 

No doubt cavalier attitudes will still exist in some, until they start drinking quarts of Kaopectate, that is!


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
garnews

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Reply with quote  #17 

I have used my diet many times without the egg. If the egg bothers anyone then just leave it out..  I watched a program on TV the other night about Surviving out in the Wild.. The man said to eat ANY egg found as they are GREAT sources of energy.. Now that would scare me..

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Reply with quote  #18 

And if our GI tract was like a dogs. All burger joints in NJ could just serve the burgers raw on a bun, or better yet... without the bun.


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This thread is a godsend!! My mom has Ernie's littermate. ( just got him...owner is ill and unselfishly gave him up so he could get the excercise he needed)
 
But he has been displaying signs of pano...the limping, whining for no reason...and the vet said nothing wrong.
 
Im going to buy him the stuff ASAP to get him on this diet. Sounds awesome. Poor puppy is SO friendly...loves to play, but ends up limping worse after a few minutes of playing in the yard. And he is a few lbs overweight...so that doesnt help.
 
NO idea how happy I seen this!! If it wasnt 11pm Id be calling my mom!

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Reply with quote  #21 

I have been feeding raw for a few years now with nothing but positive results.  I have started some before their 3rd week with raw chicken.  A friend of mine has been doing that for nearly 30 years with only positive results.   Just sharing my experience.  There are many people that have a stigma against feeding raw chicken.  It does not surprise me that the results they get from their findings are unclear, instead of just plain wrong.  LOL  The people that do feed raw have many generations of proof that it has not harmed them or their families.  Just my observations.



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I agree with you Chris, some of the healthest most beautiful Mastiffs are "Raw" feed, but then you and others are almost "Nutritionist" from all the study you do on it.  Unless, you are willing to put the time and effort into learning which most do not, and becoming a Ginsu Chief, it can be tricky.  I wonder sometimes if it is the Hot weather in Texas that contaminates the raw faster--yet sneak a good roadkill in and they act like it's heaven sent.  The pups are what I worry about the most.  Don't really know the answers, but it only takes one time for you never to do it again.  For precautions I just say no raw to people.  It is like Breeding or anything else..........LEARN FIRST!  OBTW  Good to see you back, You always offer good advice and bring a positive learning experience to the Forum.    

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Reply with quote  #23 
do you have any problems with the wheat germ capsules?  Aren't some dogs allergic to wheat?
 
 

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Reply with quote  #24 

It is corn that most dogs are allergic to.  I don't Know if the wheat germ is an allergic reaction giver if allergic to wheat--interesting.  I googled it as wheat germ allergies--but didn't understand if it really was--Maybe Eileen that bakes for dogs knows.

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Reply with quote  #25 

I fed Patty's Pano Recipe to Ruff when he was a youngster - after six months of Pano and trying everything else - it took a whole seven days to see a 100% improvement. Coincidence? I think not. I was impressed - still am!!!

I feed raw eggs to my dogs several times a week - have for many years. No problems. I do not feed them to small puppies, not even in the formula. But I do think they are safe for adults. We have chcikens so we have plenty of fresh eggs.

 

 


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We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".


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Reply with quote  #26 
When Ernie was limping I was at my wits end with worry....It took less then two weeks for his limp to go away on Patty's formula and the relief I felt was truly priceless.  It was Linda who emailed me the formula and  to her and Patty I will always be grateful. 
garnews

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Thank you all for posting just how good it DID work for you.. It has done so much for so many dogs threw out the years it is always great to hear from ones that it helped.. I can talk till I am blue in the face about just how great it is but when you guys come on and tell what it did for your guys that is what it is all about.. THANKS I am so GLAD to have been able to help.

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The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
neomom

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Reply with quote  #29 
Patty - what is it about your formula that makes it work for limping pups?  is it the combination of nutrients and can they be obtained with vitamin, oils & probiotic supplementation? 

for instance, the cod liver is high in vitamin D & A, plus omega 3's. High levels of vit A cause low bone density while high levels of vit D cause hypercalcemia which probably balances out the calcium loss from the vit. A. The lecitihin is a phospholipid composed of mostly B vitamins. Alfalfa is high in protein, vita A,B, C, K.  Wheat germ oil is high in Vit E and omega 6's - probably balances the omega3 to omega 6 ratio. Yogurt is high in calcium, magnesium and potassium as well as probiotics.  With eggs we get more vit A & D and calcium.

How did you come up with this?  Would it work for a puppy like cowboy who has periodic stiffness in the rear?


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Reply with quote  #30 

Bump!


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bump


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bump


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Reply with quote  #33 
My 13 month old started limping badly on a rear leg out of blue i gave him Patty's formula yestarday and i can see 50% improvement.For how many days
do i have to give this... 

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Reply with quote  #34 

at least a couple of weeks


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Reply with quote  #35 
Bumping for Janetf
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Reply with quote  #36 
I read this formula several years back and have had some say that the alfalfa can cause bad side effects.  Anyone else heard this or have any comments? 

Has anyone fed this formula to a dog that is just plan stiff due to rapid growth, but not limping? 

Curious about the safety of alfalfa

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Reply with quote  #37 

You know what I have found works awesome for pano........believe it or not..........puppy food! The extra little bit of calcium I think is what does the trick. Obviously your not feeding puppy food long term, just until the pano clears up. Puppy food has always cleared my dogs of pano and pretty quickly too!


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Reply with quote  #38 

BUMP


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Reply with quote  #39 
Bump for Plano formula

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Reply with quote  #40 
To those that have fed this formula, does it cause them to have diarrhea? I'm starting my 5 month old girl on it and just want to be prepared! LOL
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