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LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #1 
Here is a picture of a beautiful young dog, Kodiak, 2 years old. Sent for publication by Gloria Davis (this was one of her dogs). He was out of CH Pax River Dozer by Sidetrack and her bitch Emily - there were seven puppies. Five pieds and two fawns. Both parents were fawn.



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Linda Greeson Rice
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The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".


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Reply with quote  #2 

I have never seen a pied coloring before. Is this color excepted? How did this happen? If i may ask is this a defective genee?

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Reply with quote  #3 

I think he's a gorgeous boy and it's a shame the pieds and fluffies aren't acceptable to the standard. Thanks for posting the pic, I always enjoy seeing the pieds and the fluffies.


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Reply with quote  #4 

There is an absolutely stunning pied girl named Gwenstones Dior. I have seen her pictures, and what a beautiful girl, with a great head, and bone!!


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Ranchlands Mastiffs http://www.ranchlandsmastiffs.com Member MCOA, SSMF, FAME Rescue Volunteer SSMR If you dont rescue, Dont Breed. We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein Ch Sherwood Ranchlands Friar Tuck Ch ( In heaven) Windypines Sir Reginald Montgomery ( in heaven) National and Internation and sooo close Ch Ranchlands Duecs Wild ( In heaven) Windy Pines Mid-night Maxi ( In Heaven) Pallone Ranchlands Diamond Lil ( In Heaven) Winsomes Ranchlands Maid Marion GrCh. Ranchlands Windimup and Watchimgo Ranchlands Amazing Grace Ranchlands Kissed By An Angel Ranchlands And The Beat Goes on' Ranchlands Truly Scrumptious Ranchlands Rumor Has It Sylvans My Cherie D"Amour at Ranchlands. Ranchlands Bring on the Big Guns
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Reply with quote  #5 

Emily was a CH.Meriwether Mojo Man daughter. Mojo was known to through pieds, or excessive white. He was apricot.

Dozer's sire River Bull also had thrown pieds. So unknowingly, when I bred Emily to Dozer, I doubled up on the pied gene.

But, I do not regret that it happened. I learned something new, & the pieds were placed in pet homes. Kodiak was a sweet awesome boy, & was even featured in a newspaper article. He was very good with kids, & all people.

He is also pictured in the Molosser site under rare colors.


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Gloria Davis
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Reply with quote  #6 

he is beautiful, he reminds me of a St Bernard! Don't you just wonder if way way back someone took a few fluffy pied mastiffs, put them together a few times and started the St Bernard?


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Reply with quote  #7 

1. He's beautiful!

 

2. OMG now you guys are just taunting S.O. and if he jumps in and starts loading up the site with photos of St. Bernards again I'm not stepping in this time (not that you asked me to...)


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Maureen

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Reply with quote  #8 

You are on the right tract, actually St B. were bred from Mastiffs, Not sure how, but did read Mastiffs were the original molosser (sp) and several breeds were created by starting with the mastiff.


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Reply with quote  #9 

OMG what a beauty!!  I personally would JUMP at the chance to get a pied....


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LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #10 

This is one of the most beautiful mastiff puppies I have ever seen. She has absolutely no Deer Run in her pedigree that I know of - and I would own her in a heartbeat. I am just so smitten with her - it has given me a whole new perspective on pied mastiffs.

 

 

 

 

This is a puppy from our Ch Celtics Sweet Sam and a lovely Apricot bitch. There were two pied babies in the litter - the same bitch was bred to Sam two other times and had huge litters (16~) and never produced another puppy with so much as a white hair on their body. No white toes or chest spots or anything. This puppy was placed as a pet and her owners absolutely adore her.

 


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Linda Greeson Rice
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The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
homebody

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Reply with quote  #11 

THAT is a gorgeous puppy!! Whatever color it is or is not!  What a sweetheart...


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Reply with quote  #12 

Linda, I agree.  That pup could come stay at my house too. 

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Reply with quote  #13 

CH DEER RUN EZEKIEL  is in the background!


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"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
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Reply with quote  #14 

http://www.bluequaker.com/dog-Samped.htm


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #15 

and Wycliff!


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!


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Reply with quote  #16 

Thanks for sharing pics of the Pieds.  I think they are adorable.  The pied pup especially so smoochable.

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Reply with quote  #17 

Linda

I think you used too much of your Bleach/Dreft/Blueing formula on that puppy!!!!

 

Tell us about him/her? I would never be able to walk away from a pup like that - what an awesome head.

 

So Steve, you are saying that a Deer Run dog 6 generations back on one side of the pedigree caused that coloration?


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SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #18 

I'm saying that the genes are still there waiting for the right match in order to express themselves!

 

Or.....YES!


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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Reply with quote  #19 

. NM


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Reply with quote  #20 

Steve, I'm not saying I disagree with you...but why couldn't it go back much further then that...all the way back to the monks who developed the St Bernards....why couldn't it have been a combo of 2 fluffy pied mastiffs way back then?

Sometimes I think it's very convenient to blame Deer Run for the genetic throwbacks.

 

just a thought

 

Mitzi


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Reply with quote  #21 

ugh my fave discussion...DEER RUN!

 

So Im going to do just that...RUN! lol


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marnay

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Reply with quote  #22 
Steve those were pictures of two different pied pups. The top one was Dior I think? The bottom one was from Linda's breeding. I would think Linda would know that there was DR in her own Sam's pedigree. She was talking about the other pup not having DR that she knew about.


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Reply with quote  #23 

Mitzi your heart is in the right place, but your history is flawed!

 

The mastiff was introduced along with the Newf into the Alpine dogs at the hospice, not the other way around!

 

The existing Alpine dogs were "piebald" ( see photos of Barry )

 

DR ( strongly rumored ) used Saints and perhaps Great Danes in their breeding programs to increase size. 

 

Any expression today of pies, especially coming from pedigrees filled with DR background, should raise flags!

 

You're new and need to do lots of research. Good that you question!

 

S.O.


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #24 

Marnay,

 

I understand that and just wanted to make certain there was no misunderstanding. If my post appeared to be a bit nebulous, I apologize.

 

We haven't seen the other pups pedigree and bear in mind that over the last 100 years many questionable pedigrees existed which came to light and probably more which never saw the light of day!

 

S.O.

 


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!


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Reply with quote  #25 

Linda those pups are outstanding. You are so right I would own one that looks like that in a heart beat. Hear is a question. If you take a mastiff with the bone head and structure that pass all health test and the dogs only flaw is the color of the coat why not keep it. There are dogs that have correct coats but many other lacks and flaws and yet their color is excepted so they can be bred. some people look past the other flaws. Why not look past the color flaw. I feel they are very uneak and very eye ketching.And if there is no written proof there coloring came from another breed how do we know that they were not meant to have that coloring in them.

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Reply with quote  #26 

I saw that puppy (the 2nd one with the apricot bitch) and it was a hunk!


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Reply with quote  #27 

Linda, Is the first picture Gwenstones Dior??  I love her head and her bone in that picture.  If ir is her she has puppies on the ground now, nice structure on them as well.


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Ranchlands Mastiffs http://www.ranchlandsmastiffs.com Member MCOA, SSMF, FAME Rescue Volunteer SSMR If you dont rescue, Dont Breed. We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein Ch Sherwood Ranchlands Friar Tuck Ch ( In heaven) Windypines Sir Reginald Montgomery ( in heaven) National and Internation and sooo close Ch Ranchlands Duecs Wild ( In heaven) Windy Pines Mid-night Maxi ( In Heaven) Pallone Ranchlands Diamond Lil ( In Heaven) Winsomes Ranchlands Maid Marion GrCh. Ranchlands Windimup and Watchimgo Ranchlands Amazing Grace Ranchlands Kissed By An Angel Ranchlands And The Beat Goes on' Ranchlands Truly Scrumptious Ranchlands Rumor Has It Sylvans My Cherie D"Amour at Ranchlands. Ranchlands Bring on the Big Guns
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #28 

Yes, that was Dior - I love her love her!!


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Linda Greeson Rice
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The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
Crossroads

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Reply with quote  #29 

That is so interesting that she has puppies on the ground.  She is unbelievably beautiful.  Tell us about them...what colors are they?

 

Jennifer


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Tracy

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Reply with quote  #30 

The pictures I saw of her with the puppies were two fawns, one male and one female. truly nice bone for six weeks. I would need to seek permission from Carl about posting thier picts here, They are I believe located in Belgium. Thier names are Frodo and Feadore.


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Reply with quote  #31 

You are right about loving her Linda!!  She has the nicest head.  i tried to Talk carl into sending the boy  puppy to me, but it was a big no go! LOL!!!


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Ranchlands Mastiffs http://www.ranchlandsmastiffs.com Member MCOA, SSMF, FAME Rescue Volunteer SSMR If you dont rescue, Dont Breed. We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein Ch Sherwood Ranchlands Friar Tuck Ch ( In heaven) Windypines Sir Reginald Montgomery ( in heaven) National and Internation and sooo close Ch Ranchlands Duecs Wild ( In heaven) Windy Pines Mid-night Maxi ( In Heaven) Pallone Ranchlands Diamond Lil ( In Heaven) Winsomes Ranchlands Maid Marion GrCh. Ranchlands Windimup and Watchimgo Ranchlands Amazing Grace Ranchlands Kissed By An Angel Ranchlands And The Beat Goes on' Ranchlands Truly Scrumptious Ranchlands Rumor Has It Sylvans My Cherie D"Amour at Ranchlands. Ranchlands Bring on the Big Guns


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Reply with quote  #32 

bump for Deb



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Reply with quote  #33 

Hey Linda, thought they had no Deer Run? This is to funny, or was it the 1st. pic with no DR. who is the 1st pup out of? or can you tell us?

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Reply with quote  #34 

Jake, the 2nd pup with the apricot bitch was out of Linda's Sam. Sam DOES have DR in his pedigree. Linda said she did not THINK the pretty pied pup had DR. May-be someone can find the pedigree for us.


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Reply with quote  #35 

OMG, that pup was BEAUTIFUL!!!! I would want one in a heartbeat!!! A friend of mine had mentioned the pied to me and I hadn't seen one, they are really beautiful.

 

 


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Reply with quote  #36 

Still waitting for ped. on that 1st. puppy, I want to see if it came from the clean community, tell us, tell us, if you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I want to see this.  Jake

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Reply with quote  #37 

Hey Jake, since you are so interested in that pied pup's pedigree, why not contact her breeder ? Carl in Belgium.

I'm sure he will be happy to give you all the details regarding Dior as well as her background.


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Reply with quote  #38 

Here is the link - go read about it.. yes , Deer Run - BUT -

 

http://www.mastiffweb.com/cgi/webdiskusjon/hoved.pl?df=4326&meldID=17982&hID=17982


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".


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Reply with quote  #39 

Why if you new she had Deer Run, why did you say she didn't, when I think you already new she did, so why didn't you just say so, take's 2 pied gene's too make a pied not 1, how much do you sell your pied's for? I would find a good home for them and give them away.    Jake



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Reply with quote  #40 

I enjoyed viewing and learning about the pied mastiff and am going to read more about it.  They are adorable - wherever they came from.  Thanks for sharing the pics -

 



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Reply with quote  #41 

Jake, if you want to toy with Linda feel free---You know why she will not be able to find a picture and so do I.  The breeders of the past were much more responsible.  They were put down at birth.  Many breeds are put down at birth when they are not correct.  I don't like designer dogs.  I have never had a pied and never want it to happen.  Breeders today are too soft in the heart, they want to save everything.  Talk to the Dalmatian people and others, they have to cull all the time.  You all won't like to hear this, but the old breeders before us did what they needed to do.  Too great a chance that the "pet" would be breed and of course the embarrassment.  In fact,, in reality all of the pups would have been removed from the face of this earth and that breeding would never been done again.  So Jake your right she won't find the pic.  Congratulations you won. 



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Reply with quote  #42 

Wasn't trying to toy with linda, she needs to quit misleading people and just state the facts. i feel like she is toying with us on the board. i was just wondering if it was a Deer Run puppy or not. I wasn't trying to win anything just wanted straight facts on the matter.  Jake

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Reply with quote  #43 

Jake,

   As in my post above to you, I stated, she thought there was no DR, she never said there was not. It is not her dog. So she spent some time on the computer last night looking up the answer.  It is a dog from out of this country and was not easy to do. So the baiting continues. Either you have trouble retaining what you read or you hear what you want to hear or you don't care and just want to keep taking shots at Linda. 


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Reply with quote  #44 

Jake, almost every post you have made on Linda's board, has been a sarcastic one. You seem to want to goad people into some kind of response,

or try to get an arguement started.

If you were really interested in learning, or getting a question answered, it would be different. Most people who are sincere are not into childish games!


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Reply with quote  #45 

Jake - I was sincerely not trying to mislead anyone. I did not think the beautiful pied puppy that I posted had any DR in her pedigree. I researched for you since you wanted to know for sure (so did I) and found the information on the link I posted. There was more posted as I remember reading several years ago but I could not find it. If I can find more in the future I will post the links so you can read it.

 

 

The very young picture of the pied puppy was one born to my Sam. She was a beautiful puppy. She was not put down but she was sold with no papers and to be spayed, which she was. She is loved and adored by her human family and is sound and healthy. She is a big, beautiful girl and her owners are very proud of her.

 

 


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".


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Reply with quote  #46 

Little Jake, in case you haven't notice, your becoming as popular as a " Hersey Bar in a punch bowl"...,but for your information, I can show you fluffs in the DR free lines back in the 90's....Both sides of the Pond bred St Bernard's into the Breed....Some say the old Heatherbell Kennel from Canada did back in the 60's....In my opinion, had they not none of us would have what we do today......A breed dies a slow death without new blood...The DR free community would be a good exsample.....

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Reply with quote  #47 

Based on my understanding of pied genetics ( and I'm not a geneticist ) the "true" piebald recessive, if aligned to certain polymorphic alleles with positive modifiers, could produce the piebald pup, even though one parent possessed the "true" piebald gene.

 

If this is possible, then if the DR dog was the carrier of the pied gene, it could have produced the pied pup, even though bred to a non piebald recessive.

 

Either:

 

(i) The non DR dog carried the polymorphic alleles plus the pos. modifiers.

(ii) The non DR dog had a true piebald recessive unrelated to DR lineage.

(iii) The non DR dog had a flawed pedigree.

(iv) Or none of the above.

 

It depends on what one wishes to conclude or believe!

 

S.O.

 

 


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!


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Reply with quote  #48 

Amen Gloria D.! 

Mitzi

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Reply with quote  #49 

Steve, check that link again


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SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #50 

Mitzi, I hope that helped!


__________________
For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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