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LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #51 

Very interesting, but that looks much more like a Saint Bernard with weird coloring than a mastiff to me. The head has a very high, well defined stop like  a Saint, and the curly tail is a dead giveaway. Also a short body - if you painted that dog black and tried to guess what breed it was, you would definately say it was a Saint.


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
Brindles

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Reply with quote  #52 

He is actually pretty! And I'm sure is an excellant pet.


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Gloria Davis
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Reply with quote  #53 

Let me guess..he's in Australia, correct??  He is beautiful!


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SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #54 

Linda,

He's from The UK Mastiff Discussion Forum.

On the pictures site under Dozer!

I believe you are a member as well.

 

S.O.

 

 

 



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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
homebody

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Reply with quote  #55 

I have seen a pic of the dog before as a pup-has to be the same one and it's in Australia...Same markings and spots. They may be talking about it on the UK board.


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LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #56 

I  don't care if he is from Russia - he still has the body type and structure of a saint.


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #57 

I'm asking them for a pedigree, we shall see how successful that will be. Don't hold your breath!


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!


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Reply with quote  #58 

Steve if you get pedigree, please post it.

Masafari

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Reply with quote  #59 

Steve, this Mastiff belongs to a good friend of mine and I know that you haven't got any permission to post these. I know she would not appreciate that you have used them and the comments being made, I have directed her to your post.

Steve Papworth


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ShawnWierck

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Reply with quote  #60 

I believe somewhere between World War I and II there were mutterings about St. Bernards and Bullmastiff crosses.  There were so few mastiffs left that it likely took some outcrosses to re-establish the breed.  It is arguable that there are no true 'pure-bred' mastiffs left today.  Though I would certainly bow to Linda's description of the pied mastiff as having several Bernard-like characteristics... to an inexperienced person like myself it just looks like a pied English Mastiff, and a very attractive one at that.  I like the idea of someone attempting to produce a homogenized strain of the pied English Mastiff.

SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #61 

Steve,

 

I just deleted the pictures!

 

I originally posted the link from the UK, which still has the posted pictures up and running btw.

 

The link could not be accessed and I responded to Mitzi who could not get to see it.

 

I remarked that it was a great looking pied. If I've offended anyone by posting that great looking dog, it's unfortunate.

 

I just wish we could all relax a bit more and realize that these "forums" are basically for educating mastiff fanciers and in so doing improve the breed in the long run.

 

Respectfully,

 

S.O.


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #62 

Steve,

 

Is it possible to have the dogs pedigree posted?

 

I'm sure everyone who breeds, would be interested in knowing that useful historical information.

 

S.O.


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #63 

http://www.englishmastiff.org.uk/board/index.php

 

 

Go to member mastiff picture gallery and look for Dozer.

 

I guess it's OK to look at that site!

 

S.O.


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
rnmkrmstffs

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Reply with quote  #64 

Hello,

I am new to this list.  I have a question.  Is this puppy considered a pied or not?   I uploaded two pix.  One of which shows the white patch on his shoulder.

Thank you in advance,

Becki



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Rebecca Thyssen
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SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #65 

It's not as aggressive a pied pattern as some, but I would consider it pied!

 

A slight white patch on the chest is not unusual in brindles and the paws can pick up the white as well. Once it extends beyond those points, I believe there are pied forces at play and it no longer becomes just a "splash" of white.

 

S.O.


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
rnmkrmstffs

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Reply with quote  #66 

Thank you Steve for the reply.   He is quite unusual.

Becki 


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Rebecca Thyssen
http://www.rainmakersmastiffs.com
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Reply with quote  #67 

I think he's quite a lovely pup!


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Masafari

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Reply with quote  #68 
For the narrow minded one's, here is the right to respond from my good freind who actually owns the supposed Saint Bernard!! Is common courtesy all but lost?
Steve Papworth
 
 Firstly, I am not annoyed by Dozer's photo being used, (asking would have been nice though) I don't care who sees him, he has never been a secret. He is not just a great looking dog, he is a great looking mastiff. 
Secondly, I have been involved with mastiffs since 1979 so I am not a new comer into the breed and I have dedicated myself to learning as much as possible since then.  I made a decision a couple of years ago to stop exhibiting and breeding.  When I heard that Dozer had been born I wanted him.  He is NEUTERED.
And yes,he is an excellent pet, companion and friend.
Dozer's pedigree will be published in the next edition of the Mastiff Association Newsletter along with his story. I am sure some of you will all want to jump on that, I will end some of the suspense, he has Deer Run there, get out the tar and feathers quick.
Some, not all of you seem to be trying to find a "blame" for pieds.  I am not going to get into genetics, but go to the Gwenestone site and read about coat colour, look at the 'S' gene, obviously Dozers parents both carried this.
So Linda, I am glad you find him interesting but I cant see how you think he looks like a saint.  Yes, he has a well defined stop but I thought mastiffs were supposed to have a good stop.  Short in body?  Get real, he is certainly not short in body.  Yes his tail curls up over his back when he is at attention but it also hangs straight when he is relaxed.  I should have sent photos of him totally relaxed.  Have a look at a painting of a mastiff by Buffon done in the 1800's, gee, I suppose you will have to find someone to blame back then too. 
I commend Dozer's breeders for not putting him down and making it public.  I don't see why they should of.  The pup might be gone but the genes are still there aren't they?  I don't think the older breeders were responsible, just scared of what people like you would say and turn things into a witch hunt.  
About his pedigree, why would you want to hold your breath Steve.  Like I said, it is being published in the MA Newsletter.  Are you a member, you can read it then, all you had to do was ask me for it instead of making that comment.  And the comment in the UK Forum, about "the betterment of the breed".  What the hell do you mean, oh I guess we take his breeders out and destroy them, never use their dogs etc.  They have bred some very nice dogs and put everything they have into their program, heart and soul.
 I suppose you have heard that the UK Kennel Club may be changing the standard.  Non standard colour will be acceptable, wont that get some of you going.  Good thing I neutered him isn't it.
You are the one who needs to relax Steve, take off your mastiff police badge and look at the big picture.  I disagree totally about condemning Deer Run.  I know what Tobin Jackson did, but what about all the crossbreeding after the war.  How can any of you say you have pure mastiffs, (perhaps if you did there would be more pied around, after all it was there in the beginning), it is common knowledge that many breeds were crossed with mastiffs to help re-establish them. 
Just be thankful for the dogs you have and love them, appreciate them and yes, look into your programs and try and improve.  Just don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Janine Morffew.
Australia.

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Steve Papworth
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Reply with quote  #69 

To Janine Morffew-

 

Although the pictures of your boy Dozer were posted without your permission I wanted you to know I thoroughly enjoyed seeing him.  I think he is truly a handsome dog and one for you to be proud of. There is nothing wrong with loving and caring for a dog.  None are perfect and coat color is surely a minor point in the big scheme of things.

 

Regards,

 

 


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Brindles

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Reply with quote  #70 

Hi Janine. If more breeders were truthful about pied pups having been born in some of their litters, I'm sure they are more common than we know.

It is nothing to be ashamed of. No worse than fluffies or long coated Mastiffs. Just part of dog breeding.

They are still great pets, and have their place in the world. Take care!


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Gloria Davis
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Reply with quote  #71 

Janine,

 

Just to clarify a few details for you.

 

I first found dozers pictures on the UK web site and thought that this fine looking pied would be of interest to all who are interested in mastiffs. I NEVER said a bad word about the dog. On the contrary, I was very complimentary!

I didn't know who owned the dog, or how old the pictures were. I attempted to only post the site address, but a member here could not access it and I then posted the pictures. If you scroll up this thread, you will see the time line and my comments.

 

I never said that I was "holding my breath" waiting for the pedigree. I was interested in his background, as any mastiff fancier would be and it was on that basis that I asked Steve, in a personal e-mail response, for his pedigree if available. If you speak with Steve again he will confirm everything I've stated.

 

On the UK site, when one registers as a new member, one can use a slogan under their posts. I chose "for the betterment of the breed"! ....That slogan will ALWAYS show on any post that I make. It was not a direct comment on your dog. If I asked about the weather in England, that slogan would still appear in my post!

 

I'm not wearing a "mastiff police badge", nor am I on a witch hunt. I have always engaged in a search for information on mastiffs in order to add to the existing body of information and for for purposes of historical significance.

 

In fact, as I post this message to you, I am also receiving a response from Col. Merle Campbell, who's family owned the dogue de bordeaux which appears in the background of many pedigrees. Col. Campbell has been good enough to tell me that he will be sending me photos of that dog and further information when he is physically able to go through his storage of those documents.

 

I sincerely hope that this clears up several issues, which seems to have gotten distorted.

 

Respectfully,

 

S.O.

 

 

 


__________________
For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!


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Reply with quote  #72 

My husband saw the pic of the pied pup that Linda posted and asked if that was the pup we were getting.  I guess if I'm looking at a pup it must be the one.  I said, why do you ask, he said, that's just a cool looking mastiff.  I love the pieds and the fluffies.  I know they are outside the standard but they really are neat to look at.

LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #73 

Thank you Steve - I think your posts was taken in the wrong way also. There was no negative remarks anywhere - we are just trying to show some examples of pied mastiffs. I did not mean my remarks as negative, because I owned and bred Saints for many years - but the dog pictured has definitely Saint characteristics. The camera does not lie - the tail is a very strong characteristic. An English Mastiff never carries the tail in that way, even when they are happy and up.. maybe up but never curled. 

 

The dog is beautiful - I have seen quite a few "pieds" but never one in such a striking color. I consider it a fault, but certainly not a serious one. I would much rather see a color variation than a structural fault. I personally have no problem with the color variation, and I also do not think that all pieds come from Tobin Jackson's breeding. As you also stated, there were pieds around many years before Tobin was even born. I would love to know where the original solid colors came from!

 

I love it when people post pictures of these beautiful dogs - and I do mean beautiful. I wish the UK Mastiff association would permit other colors - what a hoot! Then all of these beautiful dogs that breeders have been bashing could come out of the closet and show off!

 

I will never forget seeing my first pied - it was at the Lakeland Florida show in 1997 - the June show I think - some people had one there - not showing, just visiting.  That was the biggest dog I have ever seen - and to die for. His front legs were crooked , probably from growing too fast - but he had to of weighed at least 300 pounds.. and he was very sweet and friendly. What a beautiful dog he was. I will never forget him. It would make a pied lover out of anyone!


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #74 
Col. Campbell's response to my request:
 
Steve;
 
The photos are not for sale, however if I ever get them out I will be happy to share them with you over the Internet.
 
Patricia Hoffman asked for copies of our photos and pedigrees.  During the middle of the effort I had several heart attacks, bypass surgery and other health problems.  I never got them to her.  I have not heard from her for several years and do not know if she is still alive or if she ever wrote a new work or republished her Mastiff book..   
 
Marie Moore visited dad several times in the late seventies and I believe early eighties.  I have forgotten when she passed away.   She had an extensive library of Mastiff works.   You probably already have that information...
 
It will be about six months before I have an opportunity research the photos and other papers we have on Mastiff's
 
We called our Dogue De Bordeaux, Filla.  She was one of the most pleasant of dogs.    She was a real joy for my brothers, me and my folks...
 
Merle


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #75 

Good article by Janine Morffew,

 

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:mM2tSjYAakcJ:www.mastifftalk.com/pieds.pdf+Janine+Morffew+mastiff&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #76 

http://www.moloss.com/breeds/mn/m002/

 

Another good site!


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
homebody

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Reply with quote  #77 

Hmmm..what happened to the pic Steve?? I just have a red x..


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homebody

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SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #78 

Are you referring to the above post with the kitty?

 

I see it appear, must be your computer.


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
homebody

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Reply with quote  #79 

No..still the red x...


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SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #80 

I pasted it off AOL. Perhaps there is some problem. I will try again tomorrow when the system is working better.


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
mgmmstf

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Reply with quote  #81 

Could it be the infusion of Saint Bernard blood into our breed way back when?  Theoretically, it can crop out generations later.  Certainly, the markings look like the Saints.  Interesting!

 

Marilyn

SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #82 

Picture with no captionDozer at rest, looking for the channel selector I think!...LOL


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #83 

How about some new pictures of that beautiful Dozer?


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
Cedarhollow

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Reply with quote  #84 

Linda - Here's a question for you...I am seeing more and more Mastiffs with tails that curl as much if not more than Dozer's tail and yet have no other characteristics that could point towards Saints...where do you think that comes from??  I am only asking because some of us were recently remarking about the tails lately...just looking for your input!


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Jamie Morris
Cedarhollow Mastiffs

"Until one has loved an animal,
a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
by Anatole France
lplnktt

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Reply with quote  #85 
tail curling Sir Thor is around nine months here He does the tail up when on alert




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Laura
Sir Thor CDX,RE,CGC,TT
Midwest's Lady Sif Our Tiger Lily CD,RE, CGC TT, TDI
Keely Jo "bad dog" (mole dog)
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Reply with quote  #86 

My boy Kael does it.

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paradigm

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Reply with quote  #87 

 

CH Merwither Mojo Man did not thow any pieds in a litter he sired for me.  The CH bitch he was bred to was an extended line breeding to his dam as well.

His full sister won the MCOA (9-12) puppy bitch class (1991) she also went into the MCOA Hall of fame in 1998 by the champions she produced.

I have a photo of his litter and all of the puppies were marked nicely.  One of his daughters was a deep red apricot with all black toenails, a real beauty. She was one point from completing her championship when she had to be emergency spayed. Another daughter was a fawn who did complete her championship and she also passed her health test with goods.

 

With genes there are millions of possibilites but please keep in mind the sire and dam are both contributors to the gene pool. I happened upon this thread and had to speak up on behalf of this boy who was also OFA Excellent. His genes contributed to some very nice pups.

 

This was many years ago and I no longer have a living Mastiff but wanted to give due respect to CH Meriwether's MoJo Man.

 

 

Ms. Malonee

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Reply with quote  #88 

That's all well & good that Mojo produced that way for you. But his late owner, Tom Devier had several litters with almost 1/2 of the litter being pieds. I was there, saw them, & took pictures. Mojo was the sire, Princess was the dam. Both Meriwether dogs.

And in point of fact, Mojo sired pieds in other litters too. Also produced excessive amounts of white. Both Linda & Billy Phillips can verify that.

Color is a cosmetic fault. Not life threatning! But breeders still need to know

what they are dealing with when pieds or too much white crops up.
Thus the points of information will be shared.


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Gloria Davis
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Reply with quote  #89 

Any information shared is always good, but without pedigrees it is hard to evaluate.

Princess was not all Meriwether as was with Mojo.

Both dog and bitch had sires from other lines.

Keeping pedigrees tight with what you are familiar with is always the best way to breed. Breeders need to go out on occasion but after bringing in the new genes it best to breed back into what you know.

Which is why the pups turned out correct in the litter previously pictured.

 

Ms. Malonee


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Ms. Malonee
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Reply with quote  #90 

I believe we are both in agreement, if something doesn't work pull back and re-evaluate as how to breed each individual dog or bitch and what works best for them.

 

Ms. Malonee

 


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Reply with quote  #91 

 

You are correct, thinking back Princess's litter did have alot of white but no pied. 

As you stated obviously Princess and Mojo were not a good combination if they produced that many pieds.

Princess's dam also produced this nice male from another litter. He had all black toenails and no white, when used as stud he  produced nicely.

 

 

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Ms. Malonee

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Reply with quote  #92 

Gloria:

 

For informational purposes were there any pieds in the litter out of your English import and Mojo?

I have a photo of a female from that litter, called lady of nottingham.

I'm including other photos of Mojo's babies too, if there were pied's I was not made privy to it.

I am not doubting your word..would just like to know.

 

Thank you.

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Ms. Malonee

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Reply with quote  #93 

Here is another male I bred years ago in which the sire's dam was Mojo's aunt, this again was an extended line breeding producing this male.

When I mentioned earlier that Princess's litter had very much white it was not intended to be an aspersion to the sire of Princess, as I stated earlier with gene's millions of possibilities exist.

I found this thread to be interesting.

 

Ms. Malonee

 

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Reply with quote  #94 

loved Mo Jo Man - he was a beautiful deep red apricot with the biggest feet I have ever seen! He was not a large dog, but he threw a lot of nice dogs. Temperament wise, he was the sweetest dog I think I have ever been around. Bar none! He was very well balanced and had great bone. He did throw a lot of white - when line breeding on him we came up with excessive white on the chest and white toes, even some white blazes. I don't think he carried the pied gene - just threw excessive white. I have even seen white up to the elbow on a dog out of him.  He also carried the recessive gene for long hair. Would I breed to him if he was still alive - yes I might. The white and the long hair were just cosmetic flaws and he had a lot else going for him.

 

 


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
Brindles

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Reply with quote  #95 

Thanks Linda. I knew you know what I know about Mojo.

He was a nice apricot male. That was one of the reasons I used him several times. And also because he was a Wallon grandson.

Emily was a Mojo daughter, & when bred to Dozer, I got the litter with 5 pieds in it, & 2 fawns. Because Dozer, as well as Mojo had both thrown pieds prior to my litter with different bitches.

As far as I am concerned, it is just another part of being a breeder, & researching the background of dogs in your pedigrees. Sometimes you are unaware of traits or problems until they display themselves right before your eyes.

That is why the actual breeders of the dogs, owners, or others who know them, can be a valuable source of information.( If they are honest, & willing to share.)


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Gloria Davis
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Reply with quote  #96 

Honesty is always important but also what may work for some may not work for others due to pedigrees that are combined.  This is why I showed you an example of litter he sired for me.

 

Ms. Malonee

 

 


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Ms. Malonee
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Reply with quote  #97 

Your Celtic Sweet Sam is beautiful what a handsome older gent he is.

 

No need for me to stay here any longer...enjoy your Mastiffs! 

 

Ms. Malonee


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LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #98 

Gloria - my wise mountain lady, you are so right. I would never get too upset over white markings or long hair - no big deal. They still make wonderful, sweet, healthy pets. It is the hidden health problems that I think we need to know about.

 

Kind of like HYPP in Quarter horses - they sure kept that under wraps for a long time. The top studs in the country had it. They kept touting that is was no big deal - I must tell you from personal experience, when it is YOUR horse that drops dead from it it is a very big deal. The breeders have pretty much regulated themselves and bred away from it. But my young stallion is just as dead.

 

Same thing with the dogs - if you at least know where the problems are coming from you can stay away from those bloodlines and work in a different direction.


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".


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Reply with quote  #99 

Linda, you and I both know that all that crap about hypp and Impressive had nothing to do with the horses and had EVERYTHING to do with MONEY!!  Which proves in an odd way Don's point about following the money trail.  I wonder if people have any idea what kind of money went down the toliet when it was proven that HYPP was genetic.  Impressive people tried for years to say it wasn't.  We lost an "informative" horse here two years ago.  It is a terrifying death for the horse. I have never looked at Quarter Horses or QH Breeders the same. 

LindaGreesonRice

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Reply with quote  #100 

Deanne - all of my quarter horses are HYPP negative - and I would never breed one of my mares to a N/H horse ever! Fortunately we have some good choices..


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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit

The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm



We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
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