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hunzeal

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Reply with quote  #201 
My wonderful passionate defender of the breed fellow breeders and fanciers, where were you all when a lovely, accomplished Champion bitch of my breeding was euthanized at 2.7 years of age with an alleged ' cruciate ligament' rupture in spite of my witnessed agreement that if anything happened to her or she was no longer wanted, I, the breeder would be able to take full responsibility for her and get her back.
Furthermore, when I vehemently complained to the ' powers be' and wanted my affidavits presented pertaining to the agreement to take her owners to task, it was all squashed.
Hence we no longer have the great number of Mastiffs ( 50 odd...laughable by your standards, I know) supporting the ONLY Mastiff Champ Show in Oz. Several of us left the club in great sadness or as in my case, in disgust.
You see, I DO take my breeding very seriously, NEVER bred a litter just "to sell' kept as many as 4 of my puppies from the same litter. My whelping bitches are NEVER left unattended for at least the first 4 weeks of the puppies life. I have NOT lost a puppy in years....and my heart ( NOT my wallet!) breaks if through some vet's bungling I ever do!
 Above all, I am a great believer in Karma! ALL people who got into my line through the back door and bred against my guidance have unfortunately come a cropper some way or another. You see, I went to see just what was behind my line in the UK back in 1984..
I think we need to take lessons in genetics here...ALL pups in the same litter need to be neutered as they are all potential carriers?! OMG! How is it that I DON'T have a kennelful of gorgeous pieds????
As I was flamed from so many angles I'd need to write chapters to ' explain'. I am greatly surprised how quickly the thread changed direction!
We have long lost the very thread which I find very interesting and would really like to address in the open...inferences & 1/2 baked knowledge and innuendo  are not getting us very far.
Another very serious allegation was made against me in a post by Peter, I am only too happy to bring it all out in the open. Present FACTS, pedigrees, please.
I have nothing to hide, I never have hidden anything and above all I am always ready to address issues as presenting and suffer the consequences.
"One swallow does not make rain..."
P.S.
Tracy thank you for understanding exactly my vicarious position amongst the Australian Mastiff Fraternity. 
awwww the price we pay for LOVING the breed, winning, health testing and taking RESPONSIBILITY! WHO else could have been ' excluded ' from by now a long defunct & never affiliated club ( hence my barristers advised me not to go ahead and sue on the grounds of " Denial of Natural Justice") ...WITHOUT a
' charge' of inappropriate action, without the constitutionally stated, 28 day of recourse to the ' charge' and furthermore, excluded by the ' general meeting' though it was stated that only the committee had the right to dismiss a charged member...& ALL in all by 9 people in 5 families!?
Maybe I should rename my book " Flame, Fame & Claim" lol. 
Hey, and in spite of all this Eve Olsen Fisher proudly calls me a FRIEND!  Amasha.


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hunzeal
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Reply with quote  #202 
I think what I take from this thread is that there can be a heavy price to pay when you are a successful breeder, personally, mentally, emotionally, financially.

*********************************************************
I hope you would take away from this thread that Breeders sympathize with other Breeders and do not like the way some things are done.  Even though we as Breeders understand that things long ago were different than today,  We as Breeders let other Breeders make their own decisions on the own kennels and we do not tell out in public all we know.  I hope you would understand that when a Breeder says they did something and ads on the words of a male they did not agree to, instead of I made that decision because of the pressure at the time, I am glad this pied issue is more acceptable today and I would not even consider it today--those are not words I can not agree with.  Then I hope everyone that says it was for the betterment of the breed and thinks that will make it OK understands it does not.  If the whole litter had been destroyed and the parents neutered--then no one would say a word when betterment of the breed was used.  It is the new catch all term and it will not fly unless all is done for the betterment of the breed not just a part.

We are a strange group here.  Many Accidents happen in life.  One can be in a car and have to make a split decision--take the concrete wall and die, or hit the car ahead and kill all.  Pilots must make a decision in seconds, bail and save their life and the plane goes into a community or stay and try to avoid the most crowded areas and schools, a man jumps into an icy lake to save people from a bridge collapse.......when asked he says I didn't even think about it.  These are acts of selflessness.  There comes a time in any life we must make a split decision--There is a moral character involved so it is never thought about because we will do what our moral character tells us to do.  We in Breeding have to think ahead on the possibilities that we have to make hard decisions on.  I find it strange it would be a "Hard" decision at all because our moral character will guide us if we allow it.

Now Gloria and Amasha, I emailed Peter to intervene on a thread that should not have been put up.  It was not because I like you both, but because it was wrong to do.  He as the decent Gentleman and spoke to the person and it was removed.  You need to reevaluate your slams to him--You know he has Great dogs and you know he is a very decent Man.  I expect you to treat him as such until a time he does something on this board to you before provoked to do it. 

As far as the MCOA goes, they taught me well and so did my mentors--there is right and wrong.  Those that have committed atrocities in Mastiffs are not welcome to the club, and they do not apply for membership because of years of known abuse to animals old and young--so there is no need to talk about culling.

I always stand by my friends............as long as they are standing straight.  When they are wrong I tell them, it is the price you pay to call me friend.

There is too much here for me not to notice certain things, out of no where Amasha mentions this casually in the middle of a post I euthanized pieds, almost as I will throw that out out here before one of my countrymen does. No regret but blames it on the wrong choice of a stud dog.  Then in a definite way,  with what I must say a lack of remorse in my eyes still defiant apologies and gives 1/2 ass excuses, then chastises other if the do not test..........when did any one test a newborn except for a good heart beat, cleft pallet, and all bodily parts?  No too many little problems in those post for me not to say something.  I also gave you a way out by asking the year and why--it wasn't 20 or 30 years ago--but you should have taken the out. 

Now call me any name you want, but I can not allow others to ever think this is right in any way to do--and it would have gone that direction if Amasha had only helped a little. 

This is what you should take away from this conversation, Breeders are tolerant of others unless they try hard to smear crap in your face and Most breeders will not tolerate it--Money and wins and who you are mean nothing to us when it comes to ethics.  There was no mistake in my understanding of the English language even with an accent and there is no mistake on my part on what is acceptable in dogs.
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #203 
Karen,

A small enclave is a double edged sword.

Although many faults will appear, there is still the potential of producing some wonderful specimens as well.

In effect, it's can become a forced linebred community and if judiciously thought out this "confined" milieu could reap great rewards and present golden opportunities. Unlike England in the post war years, you have a much better genetic pool to source from and your small community could produce the best of the best, if care & science are used before breeding takes place!

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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
hunzeal

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Reply with quote  #204 
Whatever Deborah! We will agree to disagree here. I still support Amasha's decision regarding the pieds. Because in the end, it is her name & breeding program...not your's or mine.
Until we walk in someone else's shoes, we never know all the details.
Regarding Peter & his Mastdoch Mastiffs, I have not smeared his dogs in any way. I've been complimentary to them in the past, & congradulated their wins.
I'm truly over all this BS! Sydney is GREAT, & I'm very happy with my life, dogs, & state of mind.
Hope everyone has a wonderful day, night, or just gets "high" on Mastiff enthusiasm !!!!!         Gloria

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hunzeal

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Reply with quote  #205 
Now let me reveal the MOST IMPORTANT factor driving my agonizing decision at the time...back in those days in Queensland when a registered litter was born as a registered breeder I was compelled to register ALL live puppies and supply FULL pedigrees to all puppies sold within 2 weeks of the puppies leaving my premises.
As a breeder I could have been expelled by the Canine Council for not complying with their ruling and never be able to breed a litter! I argued with the ruling at the time, not about PIEDS ( I NEVER dreamed I would be producing one!) just to be able to differentiate  between puppies sold as 'pets'.
LUCKILY, we can take heart, the rule since long has been changed, hence I would NOT have to make the same decision today. My beautiful puppies  could simply be placed on a "LIMITED" register, NOT for breeding! I think we could reflect a little just how easy it is to condemn an action made agonizingly with not much of a choice. Have a great day or night.
Amasha.

Peter, you must have me confused with somebody else or you are not so good at Maths?? 35 years of breeding? .... having bred my first litter 17th of Feb '1986...( NEVER wanted to breed just love my Mastiffs had them since 1981) and have bred ONLY 2 litters these past 6 or so years, and NOT shown for about the past 2 years when I beat you once again at the Spring Fair.
Your ' clean up' at the ONLY Royal you won with me present with your lovely Bredwardine imported bitch from the Junior class.. I still managed to get CC Dog, Res CC bitch & RUBOB with a 6 & 1/2 year old bitch, as well as Champion puppy...I won ALL 5/5 classes entered ..so I guess as a breeder, I am not too ashamed! and as for you, it will stay with you as a most important lovely memory! Taylor  was a lovely bitch, well worthy of the win on the day by one of these ' worthless'  judges! Cheers, Amasha

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ToadHall

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Reply with quote  #206 
In effect, it's can become a forced linebred community and if judiciously thought out this "confined" milieu could reap great rewards and present golden opportunities.
well thats one perspective Steve...although I don't see myself in a forced linebred community LOL my choice when I started out was to bring in new lines..for various reasons..the risks of using what is here or importing ..well.. I won't go into here..but many of the breeders here have 'tied up their lines' also which effectively gives one limited options as a breeder. I can understand the initial rationale around this, protecting the breed/lines etc, but it is also a double edge sword..as in stopping progress and other types of control issues that can ensue. 
I am the first new breeder here for many years and I have only bred one litter, yet there is angst about this..certainly no pats on the back! I will continue to bring in lines as required for my own breeding programme and anyone who is diligently wanting to get into the breed with my mastiffs..I will encourage it but this is my criteria for them also..that they invest in the right breedings..I want some committment from them to this as in IMO we need new breeders here to invest in the breed, this is where I will put my energy and focus.
 
 Unlike England in the post war years, you have a much better genetic pool to source from and your small community could produce the best of the best, if care & science are used before breeding takes place!
I don't disagree with the care and science aspect of your statement Steve.

Deb I hope you don't think I am a proponent of culling....this is not so..I do acknowledge that many are..in other breeds especially as Steve alluded to...I couldn't be that objective myself nor would I want to be. The only breeding practices I want to be judge and jury of is my own...if this makes sense.







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Karen Dyer
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SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #207 

Karen,

My "key words" were, "it can become"!

The introduction of outside genetics has shown you that it is possible to produce very nice specimens as you have done.

My point, is that once you establish a good genetic mix, you can now build on this mix and produce consistent type. A limited environment is not necessarily a bad thing and solutions don't always come frozen from abroad!

Nantymynydd just being one example.


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
ToadHall

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Reply with quote  #208 
thanks for the clarification on that Steve..
Nantymynydd..if you have time could you can yo expand on your thoughts here?
PM might be more appropriate
cheers karen


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SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #209 
See post #367 on the Medicine Man thread.



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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
NFS

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Reply with quote  #210 
Amasha I am having a hard time trying to figure out who you were talking about here and since no one else is asking I will you can tell me privately if you
want just interested

 I did what I had to do for the FEAR that some dipshit as in the past guided by a stupid woman in Victoria who has done NOTHING in Oz except open her stupid BIG empty mouth...WILL encourage some similar twits to seek my
' pets'  out and breed with them!

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Janine

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Reply with quote  #211 
No prizes or guessing that one Peter, I do believe Madam is referring to me.
Yes, yes, airing dirty laundry from OZ, what is new when it comes to this woman.
I have been racking my brain as to whom it is that I encouraged to breed with pets, the only one I can think of is a woman in NSW who purchased two mastiffs from Hunzeal and asked me to do two pedigrees for her.  That was about the extent of the correspondence until I had to threaten legal action to get the money owed.  I have really had nothing to do with this woman except for that.  But why were a male and female sold to one person with papers? 
This part is for you Amasha, at one time we were friends, I was warned by so many to be careful but as I have said before, I make up my own mind and I did not think you were all that bad.  Dont bother with the old "we were never friends", think back, when your membership was refused from the Aust Club who was it that went against people who were great mates, all because I did not believe that the correct procedure had been followed, ethics Amasha, something I believe in, I believed you deserved the chance to face the allegations against you, no one should be removed without this opportunity, you got back in the club so you could do what, tell them to shove it up their arse, I got you into the Vic club when some on committee voted against it, the club is now split because as usual you turned people against each other and friendships totally destroyed.  When Giggy died, who did you ask to write a death notice, ME, I made you welcome in my home.  So back then I would say I agree with you on the Stupid empty headed part because I fell in.
You seem to think that EVERYONE in OZ hates you because you are a winner, wrong, guess again, not one person down under begrudges a good dog winning, it is your attitude which turns people right off.  You take delight in causing trouble, seeing people fighting.
In everything you have ever written, NOT ONCE have I read anything about your dogs which has not been connected to the show ring, not one little story about something one has done that is a light hearted laugh.  You continually go on about how much you have spent, how much you have won, how you sold you mansion to move into smaller digs to keep your dogs.  Everyone who has mastiffs spends money on them, but it is not something I have ever give second thought to.
I read where you say lurking people with no lives or something like that, I come into this forum when I have something to say, what have you contributed in your posts, as usual your wins, how hard done by you are by all of us horrible people down here blah blah, same old same old.
  And Gloria, where for God's sake is the gay bashing, I think we are all above that and it is no ones business.  Had you not attacked Peter and Karen they would have made you welcome in their home, but I agree with them, why invite someone who has already made up their mind not to like the dogs.
So Amasha, you have a nice day dear, keep the knee elevated and shut your own big mouth, you will end up with a sprained tongue as well.
Janine.

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Reply with quote  #212 

Here Here Janine !!  Maybe you are disliked so much because of the "Mastiff Breed Feature" show in Canberra. When you won CC bitch against a big turnout (oz style) of bitches.Sorry i can't remember your girls name , but i do recall her win. Gosh even you were there Jan, and didn't do too badly either.We might not have won ........... But the look on some peoples faces PRICELESS !!!


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hunzeal

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Reply with quote  #213 
Janine, still slinging your old axe I see! As to the gay bashing reference...the thread was removed because people were offended by it.
Amasha is indeed not a well liked person,(except by the people who truly know her, & remain true friends!) guess her & I have that in common. It is hard for some people to swallow that a woman dares to speak out, be productive, & excel within the breed.
Who gives a rat's ass whether you or anyone else likes Amasha or me? The only way I've even ever heard of you was through the pied pup you owned.
And your silly remarks directed toward Amasha back I believe in early January on this very forum.( Lizzie Borden?? HA, HA!) Maybe your own bitterness clouds your mind.
All of us are childish & stupid to feed into this SHIT !! Time could be so better spent in positive things for the breed.
Tit for tat, petty witch or warlock hunts. Only the STRONG survive, & continue to make positive differences within the breed.
I predicted you would rush in to stir crap...thanks for showing your true colors once again!!                       Gloria

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SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #214 

"Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment!"....Will Rogers


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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Reply with quote  #215 
Good Morning Gloria,
Glad to see you are having such fun down under, I must have missed the other part of the forum in regards to the bashing but I stand by what I said about it having no place here anyway.
You remind me of so many others going in to bat for AC, all before they were chewed up and spat out, myself included.  And the way you started this post with the old axe bit, quoting her now, dont tell me she is not making bullets and you are firing the gun.
I want you to understand this, I DONT CARE if you never heard of me before Dozer, guess what, I never heard of you before either,big deal, I never wanted to set the world on fire, I just loved my dogs and enjoyed showing, tried to breed good dogs and never really produced anything to compare with todays dogs but damn I tried. 
And I tell you what Gloria, it IS the people who truly know her that dislike her, now think about this, are we all bitter, seems to me that is what you have called just about everyone in OZ now, how can the majority of people all be so twisted and one person so perfect. Are we all just jealous, you have seen dogs from other kennels (in photos thanks to your own attack) so you want to tell me that everyone has crap, get real and get be honest with yourself, why should they be jealous.
Only the strong survive, well I have been here since 1979 and I am still here.  May not have a mastiff at the moment but that does not stop one from loving them.
Of course you predicted I would rush in, but to stir crap, when the empty headed big mouth remark was made, yeah, like I would let that go, DOH.
You both make me sick.
Janine.
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Reply with quote  #216 
I love that statement ..truely know her. Guess truely has some special meaning!! Gloria you know how you are sitting there looking at photo's and watching all those video's and listening to all the LOVELY comments A.C.is making about the dogs and people ..............  Well you featured in all those nice type of comments before also, after you got that bitch off R.M.Maybe you will take one of the youngsters home with you and we won't have to listen how you came in on her lines through the "backdoor"
Gloria have you ever been in the ring and WON and a queenly breeder looked you straight in the eye and said "Well that Fu*king judge didn't know nothing"
Or been at a show and someone says to bullmastiff exhibitors (after there was a bit of a scuffle with dogs) They remind me of Docherty's dogs !!! Then said mastiff exhibitor being told to Fu*k off because they knew our dogs were not like that. Oh that's right that comment was said as a joke !!!  We all know her alright, do not try to tell us we don't.

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Reply with quote  #217 

Sorry Janine what you said is wrong if it was Fays dogs she was referring too she knows it was me that told Fay she could do the mating if she wanted not some one in Vic and Amasha knows it was me I told her when she rang me  to ask if she could take fay to court,
She was told by me then that I told Fay "you asked her for a breeding pair and she gave them to you if she does not want you to breed them then she needs to talk to you about why then come to some arrangement with you about the cost you paid for the dogs".

Anyway if that mating did not take place then Gloria would not have got hold of that wonderful line from R.M so she could use it to set the world on Fire in the U.S and Gloria and Amasha may not have been such good friends now

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hunzeal

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Reply with quote  #218 
 How SAD!? Is this all  Australia can still put up to the rest of the World's Mastiff fraternity? Is this the CARING for the ' betterment of the breed folk' ?! We ALL claim this to have this in common?? !
Wow, it really shines right through the darkness, Janine & Karen.
No wonder my still unfinished and 20 years too LATE ( given I have longest "success" ?! to claim)  website http://www.Hunzeal.com starts with ...

" We have the set the Standard over 2 decades that others strive to attain."

Janine WHO is this " Fraternity" ?! You, & Peter..& some other choice souls you suddenly mustered ?! You 3 fell out some time ago...isn't it interesting?..same ol' same ol' I UNITE people in their hatred ....if all this negative energy could be put to good use, our breed in Oz would be laughing! ( I said that in my farewell speech as the President of the Mastiff Club of Australia & NZ in 1988! ...before my ' exclusion' )
No, Janine  we have NEVER been friends. I allowed you to advertise under my Hunzeal banner in NSW. as you could not afford to advertise your imported dog at the time! ( though you ended up paying for your add!)You asked me to critique him when I was flown to Victoria 5 times in the one year to cast my ' expert ' eye over litters and fly my stud-dogs down to Melbourne. The Briglias with their beautiful ' Breton Balgaes' paid for my time as they used my Ch Hunzeal Hi.N Mity Hagan for their MOST successful litter in Victoria....
YOU asked Annie if she could bring me over to your mother's house as you wanted my opinion about your import. I was KIND and HONEST what YOU asked me to be...I still remember my words, you couldn't take it. In the BIG schema of things WHERE are Thomas the Tanks's progeny today? WHERE are YOUR Mastiffs, you started breeding b4 me!
Re the Club Crap... Janine there ARE RECORDS in WRITING! I am an old biddy yet my memory is BETTER than the 3 of you put together. NO! You NEVER took pen to paper re my ' exclusion ' of a defunct club with NO AFFILIATION hence I could not effectively sue them for the " denial of natural justice" WHEN have you mentioned that I was the President of the SAME club & Vice President for 3 years? I was NEVER charged, nor was I given the constitutional right "to recourse in 28 days" what?  to a NO CHARGE???!
THEN, THERE WERE ONLY 11 PEOPLE  at the ' fateful AGM FROM 5 FAMILIES...(2 abstained..they wanted to use my Damaria Powerful Magic of Gildasan  imp UK.lolol! ) so that left 9! There were ONLY 3 committee member which did not constitute a quorum...they had to put it to the General Meeting ( was NON constitutional) . ..and hey there IS KARMA! Here I am SMILING...I saw your sweet little face at the Royal Melbourne in September 2007 looking at me winning BOB with the only ONE off ' type' ...yet I couldn't even be bothered titling her,  Hunzeal Whit Be Zeena( named  after her ILL fated aunt!) I didn't see you being a good sport and congratulate me. I haven't shown for some 2 years..Zeena & her 1/2 brother won CC bitch & CC dog...amongst Australia's BEST!
You never mentioned  just WHO donated the MOST dollars to the defunct Mastiff club of Aust & NZ for the Betty Baxter Show in 1988? WHO accommodated Betty after the show & Razzmatazz an entry of 72 Rottweilers for her on the Gold Coast??? Who was the first breeder to donate a $ 100 for the Overseas judge's Mastiff fund for Victorian Mastiff Club  who wanted to ' exclude me' on the grounds  that I was ' excluded' from the Mastiff  Club of Aust & NZ! ...hey, the strong arbitrator of it is now is forced to be living with ' the woman my son married ' ( Thanks to me! I gave her to Victoria!)! Karma, honey! It works in mysterious ways!

You never mentioned that the New Zealand part of the club like years later the division in the Victorian club BROKE away in the name of JUSTICE ( no, maybe NOT in the support of Amasha Caffyn as such but as to the UNFAIRNESS that has transpired!...what was done to me , they could NOT swallow in the name of justice! Again CORRESPONDENCE pertaining to ALL this is PLENTIFUL and in PRINT!
You are way off the mark! I sold Fay a lovely pair of SOUND Mastiffs but NOT as a breeding pair! You pet, went against my advise of NOT breeding them together...you great pedigree expert you...you said there was NOTHING wrong with breeding them together! Hey, and you had to sue them to get your money? Awwwwwww?!
NOT interested in any other crap...put up ....SUBSTANTIATE in PRINT from mags..of shut up! Cheers Amasha.
Sorry International Mastiff folk..this must be boring you to death... call this
' Storm in a tea-cup' the big fish in a little pond getting overheated...

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"Here Here Janine !!  Maybe you are disliked so much because of the "Mastiff Breed Feature" show in Canberra. When you won CC bitch against a big turnout (oz style) of bitches.Sorry i can't remember your girls name , but i do recall her win. Gosh even you were there Jan, and didn't do too badly either.We might not have won ........... But the look on some peoples faces PRICELESS !!!"

The lovely Karen of Mastdoch ...spelling please, you mean " Hear, Hear" I thought you didn't care  about show 'upmanship' ....it was SOOO LONG AGO! Hey and you can still get off on it?! Selective memory??!

The SAME Canberra "Feature Show for Mastiffs" Oct 1993...you are referring to ...

BOB & CC dog ...Ch Hunzeal Hi .N mighty Hagan ( under 2 years )

CC Dog ..Ch Hunzeal Imperial Izaak ( 9 months of age..)

CC Bitch ...Ch Guardall Laska ( NOT Janine's prefix) ...Ru BOB???? Can't be
wasting any more time looking???

Res CC Bitch Ch Hunzeal Fantasia...

Gees Karen,
"look on some peoples faces PRICELESS !!!"...weren't you stunned that your import & Fire & Rain did not come anywhere?! LOL
 I am signing off from this yucky, time wasting, boring ' let's get AC. thread.
Isn't that wonderful how Ch Hunzeal Fantasia, a pleasant medium sized bitch can bother you soooo much?! You have both beaten her ONCE! Woo HOO! She will be hopefully remembered for 11/11 BOB in the biggest Royal Competition...I know, under all these ' hopeless' judged including Eve Olsen Fisher who put her not only BOB but also Runner Up In Show @ the Utility Club Show she was judging in 1992 in Sydney. Cripes such old hat...still a festering sore?! Gloria & I are going out to lunch and take the dogs for a walk in the rain. My sweet untitled Zeena,( should count up her challeges, she maybe titled?!) who like her illistrious ancectors b4 can still strutt her stuff at 5 years of age in season!
Have a lovely day! Sorry other folks...The danger of BIG fish in a small pond syndrome!
Amasha.
I'd be MORE interested in my ' fawn X Fawn" = brindle theread.

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Well I am sorry the Australia club was before my time but I am sure they had there Reasons Knowing you as I do and they would not be the ones you put forward.
same as the bitch you keep crying over.
I will admit I took your side on the reasoning that you put forward but did leave it open for the offer side to tell me there side which they never did
 I am sure now that I would have taken the other side if they had told me there reasoning.
 I am sure that you would have only wanted her back so you could breed her.

Glad you bring up Annie's nice litter to your wonderful dog.
Now can you tell us all why part of the agreement was that she had to spay the bitch after that litter
Gee I mean if there was a reason that it should not have been breed then why did you do the mating.

Or was it so no other dog could be used on the bitch just in case it had better pups to an other dog HMMMM
That was the best Litter Annie had pity she could not use that bitch again
 and just in case any one is wondering why everyone that uses Amashas dogs always take out adds thanking her for letting them use the dogs it is because it is part of the agreement that they must place the adds and praise her and the dogs.
Talk about self promotion.




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I think that speaks volumes in itself Amasha, yes, we did all fall out for some time, why, because of the poison you spread to each of us about the others, REMEMBER, it was not until Karen, in her usual forthright manner rang me and we had it out did we realise what was happening.  But yes, we are friends now and have been for some time, same as I am friends again with Anne, still friends with the Simmonds after fighting with them too, all because of you.  But real friendships do come through, and I have mustered no one for the forum, I have not even been on it for days, YOU and Gloria bought me into it I was quite willing to leave well enough alone, Pete and Karen are pretty good at looking after themselves.
You are losing the plot Amasha, WHEN did I ever advertise under the Hunzeal plot, never, also, I never asked Anne to bring you and Robyn over and if you remember correctly Anne was not even there you numbskull.  Why would I ask you to critique Thomas, for God's sake, you opinion never meant that much to me in the first place, if you REMEMBER (you seem to forget so much) YOU OFFERED ME HAGAN and I knocked him back, you wanted me to put him over Jeanie, I DID NOT WANT THE MATING.
You put up or shut up, as for Fay, she paid up in the end and I did not tell her to breed the damn dogs, not bloody interested.
Thomas' progeny, all gone as far as I know these days, as I said before, I never set out to set the world on fire, just have some fun, I bred a whole 5 litters, so what, of course, you got five out of Angel yourself didn't you, five from one bitch, all before she was five years of age, yep, five litters in three years but no, not in it for the money hey.  You must of really loved her, poor bugger spent most of her time pregnant or with whelps.  So if that makes you a better mastiff person than me so be it.
As far as being a good sport and congratulating you at the Royal, sportsmanship is reserved for good sports Amasha, I applauded everyone else but I would not applaud you being the PERSON you are.
Why would I mention what you donated, listen to yourself, and you mention Betty stayed with you, then in another thread you mention you and her are no longer friends, gee, staying with you was it.
This latest post is so full of crap and you damn well know it.
I hope you and Gloria enjoy your walk, make it a long one off a short pier will you.  I have to go to work.
Love always.
Janine. 
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The fact remains that, no matter what part of the world Mastiff people reside in, the majority does NOT GET ALONG! And sadly, newcomers who try to breed & show often get turned off by seasoned breeders.
Now, I do not know any human out there who has not said something that hurt another. As most times, we re-act in haste & anger instead of thinking things through.
Bringing up old wounds, club politics, or personal wars just keeps scraping already raw feelings! Which one of you is a saint who opens your arms & loves every person & dog you meet ??
Karen, I'm very capable of spotting phony people. And have exposed a few in my day.
Say whatever you believe, I understand Amasha & even her temperment much more than most. I liken her to the late Lana Turner, or even Joan Crawford ( actresses!) Highly talented, even glamorous, diva's, with imperfections that still made them human.
Her & I have had MAJOR differences, & I am sure there will be more. But I can honestly say, "She LOVES the breed, & has made MEGA improvements within it." That in the LONG RUN...is why she will remain a big part of Mastiff history. And her wins are set in concrete.
Ego's, jealousy, hatred, & competiveness runs rampant once again. Seems to
just come with Mastiff territory.                 Gloria


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You two are a match made in heaven, a pair of drama queens if I ever saw them.

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Even now i still find it amazing that you are under the delusion that it is all about winning . You fob everything off as  I beat you , little fish  bla bla. It is  the kind of B.S.  we have had to listen to over the years . You hide behind the "tall poppy sydrome" It must be  a lonely place perched up top.
 I have gone for eons not talking to people, but then i don't need to keep in touch with everyone as i don't need to get money or other services off my friends. I have told you many times .... i don't need to be ringing or emailing everyone to find out "what's happening, or who they are breeding"


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 Amasha I was blamed for calling you a puppy farmer which I never did
but now I think I should have 5 litter in 3 years then the adds in the paper Kennel Clearance sale
and more than once I must add

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MEGA IMPROVEMENTS !! and in the meantime using an "American Line" NOT of her choosing. Give me a break.


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This is the fawn to fawn breeding




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WONDERFUL SPORTS YOU ALL ARE! SAD LITTLE PEOPLE. Guess it takes an army to try to even the playing field, LOL!!!!!!          Gloria


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Reply with quote  #229 

did i miss something ?? Wasn't something supposed to follow the photo's?? Or were we to comment on whether anyone would call that a Brindle. I am pretty sure if i had of bred a pup that colour even using a brindle, i would have registered it fawn.


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Amasha.
"I'd be MORE interested in my ' fawn X Fawn" = brindle theread. "

I would be interested also Amasha, why do you think the darken areas are there?  We all know that a solid pup in Mastiffs can be born looking black  and then fade out.  In the other pics you asked me to put up there seemed to be one showing with dark across the shoulders, but I wasn't sure if it was a shadow or the same pup. 

If this spotting remained, did you breed and did you experience any more spotting in the future? 

I love a good bashing but then I would rather learn more about the pieds now or the different coloration a Mastiff can have.

We know the tail is solid black then fades and sometimes leaves a black ring around the middle........then fades out.  I forget this because I see it in most of my pups and then when someone gets the nerve to ask about it, I remember not everyone realizes it fades and they are worried there is a ring of black.  I have had solids get a strange looking as they are fading when they carry the black pigment gene, but I do not remember seeing one like the pictures up.

Even with the pied gene in place, I have heard you can bred the same 2 Mastiffs and it not show up, then bred the same 2 and get a couple of pieds, then breed the same 2 and none.  It must be a relative hard thing to create if you were trying to bred a Pied.

Any thoughts on dogs about now?




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In my view, what is being seen is a variation of ticking. This is not a brindle related genetic display.

In some rare instances, the "ticking" pools in certain spots and the accumulation of black within that ticked area forms the patterns seen in these photos.

If you view the other dogs in the photo, you will see the ticking as well, but it is not concentrated as in the pup which overtly displays this trait.



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"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
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Reply with quote  #232 
To me that coloring is a fawn with black color splotches,perhaps a melanin splotch, you would nee to shave the hair to see if it is just hair or skin that is colored dark. Even if it was just hair the pattern doesnt look stripey, like a brindle, it looks more like color blocks. Possibly a partial expression of pied, more than likely a malformation of coat color due to excess melanin deposits inappropriately disperserd in the coat. Similar to a port wine birthmark in humans. I would think, and I do not know any of you in OZ, other than looking at these and other picts, it maybe a DNA mishap due to very tight line breeding??
when I think of ticking i think of blue tick hounds ect. All though I was reading this article from the border collie group, and thier definition of ticking is different than mine!!

What is Ticking?

Ticking is a pattern of small spots found only in the white parts of the dog's coat. Think of the white as putting a cloth over the dog. Ticking is like cutting holes in the cloth to let the base color (whatever that may be) show through.

Solid color dogs (with no white) can carry ticking. However, you won't be able to see it, since ticking is only visible in white trim areas.

So, what breeds typically carry ticking?

Ticking is found in many, many breeds, but is best known in Dalmatians, Australian Cattle Dogs (Queensland Heelers), and English Setters, as well as many spaniels and hounds. Australian Shepherds, Border Collies, and Corgis are some of the herding breeds which can carry ticking.


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here is a pup I bred, he has one small patch.  I do find this interesting...







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Good morning Amasha,
How's this, I apologise, Anne did come over with you, we had lunch yesterday before work and she told me that she remembers coming over with you and Robyn, so on that I was wrong, I admit it.
As for advertising under the Hunzeal banner, I remember than now as well, you offered me a cheaper rate and I took it, yes I paid for it and you stuck my dog, who according to you, you did not like, on a Hunzeal page and that I was not all that happy about, how things come back.
You also say I asked you to critique him and I did not like the answer you gave me, now to quote you from National Dog 1995. "Mr and Mrs Gunson, Mr E Warren and Janine Morffew contributed much to establishing the breed in Victoria.  Janine recently imported a lovely young dog, Ch Cenninpedr Barley Baron, known as Thomas the Tank to his friends."  Thank you for giving him his title but the dog was never shown due to his action.  So you did not like him but you had him on your page and then said he was lovely in print.  But we were never friends, yeah.
Gloria, I also agree with you for once, AC is very much like Joan Crawford, I read Mommie Dearest and you are right.
Janine.
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Well thank you Janine,
It takes a big woman to apologize. Believe it or not I have NO AXE to grind with anyone and I have a phenomenal memory and have archives to substantiate what I claim. ... I have a wonderful happy life, now retired, and I will be able to dedicate a few more years to showing &  breeding...and karma will have it that my knee escaped any serious damage from the accident so there is a few more years left in this old dear to strut her stuff in the showring!
Australia is a big beautiful country and there is certainly room for the handful of us who have over the years actively contributed and put back into the breed we love!...You you are certainly one of them, and I salute you for that!
Re your import, I DID like him, he was a lovely big dog with great boning, a good mouth, lovely colour, wonderful temperament but his movement was compromised by the ratio of the length of the tibia & fibula! That happens quite frequently with BIG dogs, so he was not alone! 
I am a super critical perfectionist. I give my Zeena 7/10...as a bitch. Gloria thinks she is 10/10!..2,7 or 10, she is the result of my 5th & 6th generations of breeding and LOVE her regardless. She lives in the house with me as a pet!

 Another salient point in the time in question...I was NOT with Robin for YEARS by then...Rebecca was 'manning', rather womaning the home front while I was being flown to Victoria. I came with Annie.
At this point I will stop correcting explaining, refuting... WHAT does it matter in the big picture? At the end of the day I sleep peacefully, wake up with a big smile each morning and have meaningful, long term friends surrounding me. Cheers, Amasha.


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Joan Crawford was in 83 films starting as a silent film star, then went on to Camp Queen!        http://www.joancrawfordbest.combiography.htm

As with most people, Joan indeed had controversy surrounding her.

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Amasha,
Now I am scared, what has bought this on, have a nice pill this morning, look at what you have written, you have just contradicted yourself, you said before I contributed nothing, now you salute me, give me a break. 
It was Robin who came here, I had just had a dog food delivery before you all arrived, it was stacked in the kitchen, and Robin was horrified I used commercial food.  I liked Robin very much and had many laughs with her, Rebecca I saw once, at the MCOV show and I have never spoken with her.  Even after you and Rob split up we used to correspond and talk on the phone, I had a lot of time for her and am sorry we eventually lost touch.
Thomas' movement was compromised by bi-lateral ruptured cruciate ligaments, and I have to ask, why say now he was a lovely dog, when before you said I was upset with your critique of him?  He did cost me a lot of money and I remember saying to Robin that he was probably one of the most expensive pets in Victoria. 
Another salient point, the house you came to is mine, not my mothers, she lives in country Victoria and this is her Melbourne base, I actually own the house.  I would love to say I have a great memory but unfortunately after your visit and I had the exorcist here, some is a bit fuzzy.
It is a shame that everything came to this, I also have many archives, when both Andy and Brian passed on all their mastiff belongings came to me and with what I already had it is so nice to look back on so much, especially all those letters. 
Now, off to the shops and work.
Have a nice day.
Janine.
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Janine, you are stooping to an even lower place than you did back in Jan.07
with your personal attacks toward Amasha. Get over it, & move on!!
Gloria

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"It was Robin who came here,...."
 Janine, like with most other accusations, HOW can I ever clear my name or win? Indeed, why do I need to?
You are adamant to even tell me just who my partners are at the time?! You seem to know it all better than me! The Briglias flew me down to view their litter by Hagan. Litter was born in 14-08-95....the pups were 8 weeks old....(the time in question with Thomas.... re his movement, the ruptures were a sad added bonus to compromise movement...again, have it your way.)
Re Robin, you should get in touch with her sister, she sure could use a lovely friend like you.
Had a fabulous day. Gloria has had the opportunity to meet some of my happy, well-adjusted friends doggy and otherwise. They are ALL bending over backwards to embrace her, so at least she could get a balanced view of my life. Rebecca came to dinner. We had a most enjoyable evening.
So life is good. I sincerely wish you the same...learn to let go. Please,  let's just leave it at all behind at this point. Say and believe ALL you want to whoever you want, I certainly will NOT waste any more effort on this pointless exercise.
We create our own path in life. The trick is to be able to give your best and above all to be able to face the consequences of your actions. My philosophy in life is " Do onto others as you want others to do onto you" You should try it sometimes, It WORKS! Cheers, Amazing Amasha.

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I have gotten lost which round is this ?  Or are we still at Round one?  I am a Great Boxing fan, love it over football or any other sport, but if you want to Win, the trick is knock them out cold on one blow, or bleed all over the crowd.  Most of us are in our fine clothes here so not too many like the added splash of blood and sweat being slung in our face.  Know the King's Rules.




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Deb - what a great portable puppy play pen that would make!


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We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
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We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
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Thank You Linda, It tends to make the pups a little sharper but it works........after all they are guard dogs

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Quote:
Do onto others as you want others to do onto you


Works great, providing one is not masochistic!...LOL

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"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!


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THE MASTIFF LOVE CLUB!


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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MY Goddess, Eve Olsen Fisher, Willowledge, breeder extraordinaire, breeder of 60 odd USA champions, International judge of 50 years...BB can judge 3 breeds ( the last time I knew) Eve can judge all of group 6 & 7! ...said this morning.." Darlin' so WHAT has changed?" I rest my case...Amasha.


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Excuse me for being late on this topic. I have just spent a good chunk of time reading it from the start and have found many interesting points. Not sure why it turned into the down under wars and would like to see more info, thoughts and opinions about pieds. I have never had one in my breedings but if one did show up, I know that it would not be culled.


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 "I have never had one in my breedings but if one did show up, I know that it would not be culled."


And that's shows you are a good ethical breeder, Duane.
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I agree with you 1000% They would make lovely pets! 
 Given the rules of the Canine Councils of our States nor would I. The rules have changed. Having to follow rules shows that you are a good ethical breeder, Dan. You are correct!
Amasha.

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Reply with quote  #250 
There are always "rules" on how to be a good and/or ethical breeder but IMO, many of our choices have to be done with what is best for each and every Mastiff that comes into our lives. Some people get to much of a god complex when they become breeders, again IMO. I had a puppy once that had two dewclaws on one of his paws. It never even crossed my mind to cull him for this. I guess that we as breeders need to realize that nature is our boss and not the other way around.

But back to the pied topic. Since I've never had a pied and do have Deer Run in the back ground, I am curious to learn more about them. The same goes for fluffies as I've never had one of them pop up. I know that both could be possible. I hope that more breeders that have had these pop up, would talk about them.

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