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DanH

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Reply with quote  #251 
Amasha, could you please post for us the rules or a link to the rules in your country that stated you must kill pied pups in the period of time that you euthanized your pups? And who was the issuing authority of that rule?

Is this a club rule?

A government regulation?

What would have happened at that time if you let those healthy pied pups go to a pet home as neutered mastiffs? Surely you wouldn't have been sent to prison!
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Reply with quote  #252 
Hyia DanH.
It appears that you have already become my judge & jury and NONE of my Mastiff 'friends' on this site have enlighten you, about our strict breeder governing rules enforced by the Canine authorities..... I let you do your own research! I have spent enough counterproductive time on this agonizing topic to seemingly to no avail. The jury is out! I would have been far more interested in causes, pedigrees or frequencies of pieds cropping up in litters than my 'sin' of complying with the breeder governing rules!

We have 6 States and 2 Territories in Australia, now mostly united. However, previously, each State had it's OWN archaic or otherwise rule GOVERNING breeder's behaviour. Now finally it is more uniform. We belong to the AKC.
NSW...always more progressive where my " brindle' puppy was born already had provisions for " PET" pedigree, i.e. she could NOT be legally bred! If people would have defaulted on our agreement of neutering, they could have still bred with her, but NOT legally so the puppies would not have been able to get back into the Mastiff gene pool.....desexing was in it's infancy if available at all at that stage.
I moved back to Qld in 1995, it was still back in the dark ages with dog rules under the Canine Control Council of Queensland...
As breeders we are forced to follow RULES if I want to be able to breed and sell registered dogs!
The rule in Qld used to be that, if a breeder registered by the Canine authorities bred 2 registered dogs...(and you would  have been DE REGISTERED if you didn't ) ALL puppies had to be REGISTERED IN THE MAIN GENE POOL of the breed!
A woman in Qld had a litter with some pied puppies many years ago. From memory the ONE surviving pied was registered as she was compelled to register it by CANINE LAW and subsequently the bitch was stolen!

We were ALL extra vulnerable in Qld as the State had a very effective illicit dog trade with dog fighting and CROSS breeding ESPECIALLY with Mastiffs! It was a vulnerable time with Mastiffs especially as they were becoming very popular! Queensland with its sparse population and vast acreages lent itself to all sorts of dark activities involving guard variety of powerful jawed dogs.. One of the most successful cross breeders even produced the "Qld Mastiff"...pigging is still a horrible but real pastime for some of these bushwhacks using Mastiff crosses!
Just think, here is this selfish, money-hungry, wicked breeder with 3 pied pups, given my name and WONDERFUL reputation for soundness they would have fetched $3000...plus..instead I paid $20/ per pup...to have them humanely put to sleep! Wow! That's good business!

 I am getting very tired of having to defend myself. WHY? WHO walks in my shoes? I have stood for stamping out breeding with young bitches, BEGINNING conscientious health testing in the breed, hips elbows eyes! YES! I was the FIRST breeder to regularly do this, generally raising the bar in breeding Mastiffs in Os as well as taking full responsibility for my breeding! Do you think that stood well with the ' establishment' of 1'2 dozen or so breeders who were am ashed owning dogs from each other?!
WHICH one of the Oz's contingency who all know this! stated it? Why do you think I was so '"disliked "?! Think about it...$ 250/ hip X rays....Crap about me was as it still IS constantly circulated to discredit me by a handful and appears to be readily believed! 
It was stated that I bred 5 litters in 3 years! Crap! 17-2-'86- 4-03-'89...my only 5 litters from a very special bitch ...and I was busily showing her between litters and winning with her! She was one special gal! How many bitches I NEVER bred with? or had ONE litter? One fellow even claimed that now he is pleased I didn't get one of my bitches back as per agreement ..she was euthanized at 2.7 years of age with alleged ' cruciate ligament rupture' Her owners who already bred her at under 2 years of age and she gave them 9 puppies that very much put them on the ' map' in Oz...told me that she had a ' thinned uterus' & further breedings may not be successful...and guess what Dan, I owned her very much bigger and better sister ( actually 2 sisters...one I spayed straight as I was NOT going to produce too many more puppies to the cruel world outside) and the other sister I DID NOT breed with until she was 4 ! Wow... the club was slit over the issue! I am dictated to as a breeder by the Canine authorities as well as the Mastiff club...Under those circumstances I the breeder, demanded to be able to take RESPONSIBILITY for my stock as per agreement! and have her back and fix her cruciate! Breeding was LAST thing on my mind and the person poiting to it knows this!
Or should I tell you, about how my happy fellow breeders wanted me to be deregistered as I used their stud dog and did a ' double mating" ILLEGAL in those days! In front of 6 witnesses I did this, the wicked woman I am! My litter was not going to be registered! I was mortified to say the least! Upon OFFERING DNA testing, the breeder and the 6 witnessed surprisingly disappeared! ...I find that after these horrendous uncharitable, nasty acts the Mastiff heaven opens to me with a BLESSING for my pain. That was Ch Hunzeal Fantasia's litter a bitch that given me more than I could ever ask for both in her 3 litters and in the Show ring in 4 States.
I have said all there is to say. My supporters reading all this codswallop are saying ' Amasha, WHY, WHY do you bother, you are so far above all this. My conscience IS clear. Unfortunately as a teacher I CANNOT let things not corrected. However, given the last few days of pure poison, maybe I should just unsubscribe and let you good people have it all.

Actually the Mastiff Uiverse is already at play! Gloria of Lionhearted Mastiffs has been here all the way from Tennassee to look after me and walk my dogs these past 3 weeks post my knee surgery. What more can I ask? Thank you Gloria!
Amasha.

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DanH

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Reply with quote  #253 
Amasha, you are correct that I am not familiar with the rules and regs in Oz. That is why I am asking you for some enlightenment.

So is the Canine Control Council of Queensland the equivalent to the AKC in the US?

Is there government oversight regarding the Canine Control Council of Queensland?

hunzeal

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Reply with quote  #254 
I think we should all keep this in mind- YOU ARE DAMNED IF YOU DO, & DAMNED IF YOU DON"T IN THIS BREED. As there is always someone ready to cast stones, or try to take you down.
Many of the oldtime breeders are still alive & well, but refuse to participate in lists or forums. They feel that this stuff is way beneath them after all the years they contributed to the breed.
I read an old article written by Tobin Jackson that is in Amasha's archives. This same stuff was pointed out back then "when there were no internet or groups available." As there were still people & movements going against those that they viewed as competition. 
We live in a chaotic world, & even in Mastiffs it can be like a war zone. This is the part that has me personally saddened, & burnt out as a breeder.
We have a loyal, loving breed compared to the "Kings of Dogdom." And they are thrust into so much controversy over trival matters.
I would like to see more pleasant times, & people's attitudes take a turn for the better !                     Gloria, Lionhearted

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Reply with quote  #255 
I disagree, It is a choice we make on our conduct.  You can not go out on boards and tell things with total arrogance and a lack of respect for others, with each word shove your wins down someone's throat as if they never win, throw in disparaging remarks to others on every post, act defiant with each post, tell of killing healthy pups because of color, and then cry FOUL when they come in and correct you.

When you temp Breeders too often and blow torch their asses too often, they may come back and burn you.  When you open your front door and shoot fire out of it, don't cry when your house catches on fire.


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Reply with quote  #256 
Amasha dear, you do not know me, nor I you. That being said I was quick to pick up on the foundation of the matter in your original explanation for culling the pups. There really is no reason to pile excuse upon excuse. It only takes away from the real reason for your choice. It takes a brave person to admit to doing something out of fear and clearly state that they would not do it again. Times are a change'n all the time. Right and wrong are as fluid as the current wave of popular opinions and judgements a dime a dozen. Live and learn and be true to yourself - we all cave in to fear - it is the root of all our failings.

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Reply with quote  #257 
Alright Gloria I was going to leave you out
But after all the shit you have put up about being nice

Let me remind you that you started the whole thing you are the one that put up a post with mistakes in it and deliberately slagged another breeder in that post also tried to put Amasha on a pedestal.
When you were corrected you started on Me and My dogs.
you were told I was not here to defend myself or my dogs

You had to put up shit that you knew nothing about just to pick a fight and kept going till you got one.
Now you take it across many threads and try to shift the blame to others.

Apart from being told you took Hunzeal lines in to the U.S to set the world on Fire.
 whether you did set the world on fire or not I have no idea
I can tell you I have had many Private post which will stay private
Now I think a may know more about you than your mother.

You both lost the plot this has nothing to do with who won what or who has the best what
Amasha was taken to task for what she is and what she has done to many Breeders in this country you can call it Karma if you want.

did I want to fight with her No do I want to fight with her no
and just for the record go and look up who has won more when mastdoch dogs and hunzeal dogs has meet in the ring then you can mail me Private
no need to bring it here.
I think we are done
Please do go and enjoy the rest of your stay in OZ I hope we can meet on better terms if you come back again I hold no grudge
Best Regards.
peter




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Reply with quote  #258 

Its good to see that the topic got back to pieds and went away from someone telling everyone else how good of a breeder that they are.


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Reply with quote  #259 
Duane,
I owned Dozer, the pied spoken about at the start of this thread, the genetics etc are explained quite well on the Gwenstone site, Carl has put it there and I found it wonderful.
I bought Dozer, I had stopped showing and breeding, my mastiffs were always members of the family so it was not a big change in any lives there, lol, they always lived in the house and had human servants, I heard about this baby and he was a grandson to my big baby at home so I did not hesitate.  The only thing different about him was his colour, he was a true mastiff, gentle, friendly, majestic and loyal.  I adored him, he had the most wonderful zest for life and a massive fan club.  I did obedience with him, he used to go to the football to support my younger son, had his own jumper, loved the tennis as well, he was out and about and everyone who met him loved him.
Dozer was neutered at 5 months, because of the standard, my personal feelings are, I wish they would change the standard because I love the colour, but until they do we have to abide by what got us involved in the first place, that is just my opinion.
I know this is probably not telling you what you wanted to know about pieds, but this one boy was such a great friend and I still miss him, he died in February this year, just turned two, from bloat.
Janine. 



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Reply with quote  #260 
Dozer from Down Under:

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acslinda

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Old post 10/03/06 at 08:23 PM #1

For Steve P..

(I love this boy!)


Attached Thumbnails:
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Linda Greeson
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Old post 10/03/06 at 08:27 PM #2

Yeah Janine tell us about who is in charge again.ROFLMAO

You need no blanket with Dozer!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

Is that a one time soccer ball that had air in it?  LOL

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Old post 10/03/06 at 08:27 PM #3

Thankyou Linda, I love him too. You can see how hard done by this poor boy is, Janine how dare you not get out of his way when he wants HIS lounge. LOL
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Old post 10/03/06 at 08:33 PM #4

I think he is just so neat! I'm so glad those times of culling the pieds and fluffies are pretty much gone. He's a lucky boy to be so spoiled.  


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Old post 10/03/06 at 09:46 PM #5

What a riot!  Love these pix! 

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Old post 10/03/06 at 10:28 PM #6

You know, I used to be slim and attractive, kids and mastiffs really take their toll on a person LOL.  Smokes keep me sane.  Deb, tut tut, Dozer knows the boundaries, just that his are a little stretched and he loves being with his mum.  Who am I to deny him this.  I did have another photo when I was laying down and he was laying right over the top of me, I did call him my Dozer Doona, my kids got him off when I was going blue.  Have a look at the photo of his left side and tell me what you think the brindle patch on the shoulder looks like.  You know, making shapes out of clouds etc.  I love his.  You are right, that was a soccer ball, you would think the kids would have learnt by this to put their stuff away by now.
I got my MA Newsletter yesterday and his story was printed in it, he looks different thats for sure.
You know Steve, maybe we should change the standard LOL.
Janine.
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Old post 10/03/06 at 10:31 PM #7

I think after looking at Dozer I agree with Steve also that the Standard should be changed, I love the way Dozer looks.  Let's all tell Steve he was right.


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Old post 10/03/06 at 10:46 PM #8

Ah common, I thought someone would have a guess by now, it looks like a mastiff head.  REALLY it does.  He is my two headed pied.  Really really special this boy.
Janine. 
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Old post 10/03/06 at 11:06 PM #9



The brindle patch is a mastiff's head!

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"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
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Reply with quote  #261 
Dozer was a Magnificent Pied.  He gave Janine such joy and is known world wide.  It was as if God stamped him with a Brindle head to tell us he was a Mastiff.  Janine and I had conversations on Dozer.  I asked is he really neutered?  Yes it was required.  I said, damn you probably would have been asked to use him if he wasn't--and yes she was on an unbelievable number of times from all over the world.  Janine did the right thing by neutering him..............but He would have made me question myself if I had owned him.

Culling was done by all years ago--It has nothing to do with DR or DRF.  It is a strange gene and it would be hard to breed just pieds................but after Dozer no one should ever cull them, he shows the joy one can bring.
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Reply with quote  #262 
It is amazing how these dogs steal our hearts, not just my Dozer but all of them, they are all so special and we never ever forget any of them because of the huge part they are in our lives.  We all go through losing them and it tears you apart.
Thanks Deb for putting the Dozer thread back up, I was so nice to read all those lovely messages again, this time with a smile because the memories are 90% good ones now, I miss him so bloody much and it is great to remember how he was loved by so many.
Janine.
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Reply with quote  #263 
He is just soooooo beautiful! 
I'm so sorry.  I didn't know he was gone.  Bless his heart. 
Love that mastiff head on his side!!!!  I saw it right away!

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Reply with quote  #264 

Well, here I am, this is what everyone has been waiting for. I am the "dipshit", the "in the back door" and the official what's left after tearing me to pieces after 18 years, does it ever stop. How can I BE CALLED A WOMAN IN QUEENSLAND? You cannot remember me, I was your concience, Amasha. My story briefly, I owned mastiffs for a number of years, very average, low quality ones, but I did love this breed and always will, on choosing to breed better, I was offered 5 dogs to use, I chose one and will pay for it for the rest of my life. on the choice of this dog, which was sold for the going rate of a mastiff back then, we did the mating, from this litter we used the sire again over a daughter, and produced 3 pied puppies from a litter of 7. 2 were dead at birth, 1 lived, it was registered, it was not "stolen", it was also to be speyed that was the contract. It was huge, beautiful bitch, but a pied. I wrote an article on it all, and sent pictures, for our mastiff club newsletter. I was torn apart from the uk, us and the breeder of the stud dog, as I was the first to admit to a pied and not culling it. My only good note was one from Mrs.Melluish in the British Isles? who wrote me and sent me photos of her pied puppies, and who assured me one is born every now and then in all her litters. It was my choice, also a sister to the dam of these puppies who also was mated back to her sire, the same dog, produced 4 out of 8 pied puppies, a breeder in tasmania who had a relation of that line, also produced pied puppies. The pied pups were all from the same bloodline, yes they all had deer run, all doubled up, these were the very first pieds in qld if we were led to believe it, and all of the pieds being bred now do go back to these lines. And incidently I do have all the paperwork on all the dogs, and heaps of photos. And we do have a choice, I lived in qld  and i did not kill my puppy! A nd a repution for soundness, one forgets i and others were at a dog show when one dog was carried because it could not walk unaided, for judges to see what a magnifient head it had, did not matter that it could not walk. My ethics far outweigh peoples concerns. I had a bitch after one litter did never breed from her again, i thought the pups were truly not very good, i did attempt one mating from the girl who was the sister to the pieds after many years of deliberation, she did not go into pup,and the deal on that was if she had a litter first pup sold was the stud fee, but that is another story. and in case anyone has forgotten her name it was "warmaster dream desired" my Madonna the best bitch I have bred. She was born on 7thNovember1991. I joined this thread because i wanted to see how far we had come with the pieds, and have heard nothing but lies, fantasy, and dissapointment. My views on the pieds are strictly personnal, from breeding them, yes they are nice pets, pets only, and if they are going to be bred in large numbers, that is a mistake on the people breeding them, there are far too many dogs of corect colour, to breed knowingly on these lines is a disservice to the breed. And to the breeder who is saying here that it is a unique colour, i say it is an incorrect colour! I am sure from this i will again be crucified, but i am honest. And one more point, I was a member of the mastiff club of aust.&nz. and i have lots of correspondence on why the decision was made on a member, and what was said, done, plus all my correspondence from a raving madwoman, I rest my case, can we please get back to the business of the pieds. And don't bother to bombard me with hatemail, i'm used to it.

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Reply with quote  #265 
Jan, i know your saga would have brought up some very ugly memories for you, for all the innuendo's and slur's on your reputation as a breeder.
 Bravo for being able to speak up about it.

Also you just reminded me about CONTRACTS !!! I remember now contracts were around and being used already by breeders in Qld. even when selling Mastiffs that were not of their prefix! Funny they seemed to work way back then so buyers could not sell, breed or use dog at stud without permission.

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Reply with quote  #266 
Hi Jan,
I remember the articles you wrote when the pups were born, I still have the photos you sent, the articles were great. 
The photo I saw of the pied in Tasmania, from memory was also brindle and white, I gave the pic to someone and never got it back, that one and Dozer are the only two I have ever seen brindle and white.
I have sent Steve O some photos of Dozer which have not been on the forum before.  (I am a computer dunce and cannot post pics)  He was so white and brindle as a baby and then the dapple came through and he was covered in spots.  His skin was also very pink.  Luckily he was not one for laying on his back in the sun.
Janine.
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Reply with quote  #267 

Woohoo! I'm back in TN...still see the saga goes on. Oh well, the QUEEN still reigns in my book, LOL!!!!!                 Gloria


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Reply with quote  #268 

At least we will be able to tell you apart now. It was a little difficult before.


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Reply with quote  #269 
Jan and Peter, please let it rest. You are giving me no choice if this continues, but to seek an alternative solution. Claimed LIES have to be substantiated.

Awwwww, Jan Gibb, X the President of the defunct club you keep rehashing of which I also was President 1 year and Vice president for 3 years...

The 'broken' woman who while the ' President' of the said, long disbanded club of these lovely, once again united handful of people named one of her bitches of 1/2 my bloodline to boot...

" Warmaster End of emasha" ( you wishes!) Luckily, the Canine authorities in Queensland had more taste and better judgment hence you had to CHANGE her name! I was trying to fathom at the time, WHY would you do such a thing? Were you so fascinated by my rear end you were constantly looking at in the showrings?
 You are "My conscience"? Pleeeeease! Have YOU a conscience at all to be able to write all this? Jan, I am still here TODAY holding my head up HIGH!!

(1) Hunzeal Count Courageous, though a lovely dog with NO SUSPICION of any ' foibles' was sold AS A PET!

NO PET PEDIGREED in QLD at the time!
ALL registered dogs were potential breeders in the eyes of the Canine Law! ALL had to be registered on FULL register!

My 'OTHER contract' I issued with all my early dogs sold Peter is referring to was as good as the people behind it! TWICE it was broken!! Against my agreement of sale thanks to Jan Gibb who ferreted out my PET dog in a pet home ( though NOT pet quality!) as she could not come to me with the quality of her bitch and the mating took place!
I cried tear of blood at the time...hey and to do 2 mating, 2 daughters back to the sire?! I only knew of ONE & only pied litter which was written up in the MCOA magazine at the time with of course all accusing fingers silently pointing to Hunzeal, and taking a further cheap shot at the tragic Grangemoors!

"1 lived, it was registered, it was not "stolen", it was also to be speyed that was the contract."

Jan please post her pedigree! HOW WAS SHE REGISTERED???? I'd like the world to see! She had to be LEGALLY registered on a FULL pedigree! Therefore, if people defaulted she WOULD have been bred, her progeny back in the Mastiff gene-pool! 

The personal contract was a breeder's OWN doing...did not stand up in a court of law! Thanks to Janine ' expertise'  what I referred to earlier...another pair of my dogs, ( NOTHING to do with pieds) though sound & Champions were sold to this woman NOT as a 'breeding pair' again, NOTHING wrong with either, but as a breeder I advised her to breed ' out' as I felt it would have been a better choice ...but I was only their breeder, Janine knew better!

Jan, you yourself told me she was sold to a man around Ipswich and she was stolen!
Please supply her spaying certificate as you have all these ' records'.
YOU! more than anyone else KNOWS about the vehement crossbreeding activity at the time by your good & buddy, who you gave a bitch to so that, he could have legitimately breed Mastiffs! A sad, dark period for the breed in Qld at that time!

"a breeder in tasmania who had a relation of that line, also produced pied puppies..."

WHO? Rather than your ghastly personal attacks about me I would have been very much more interested in your geneticists reports re colour, I was trying to look for the information you gave me at the time....and you bred another sister back to the sire?! OMG! and you were trying to breed Ch Warmaster Dream Desired, a hell-of-a- lovely, massive, beautiful bitch to Janine's apricot import. I told you at the time, I associated the pieds with the apricot hue...which obviously was just circumstantial ..

DANGER OUR what you are inferring! ALL my births, natural or Cesarean WERE/ ARE WITNESSED by vets and only a handful at that and they are still around!

NO, I NEVER PRODUCED ANY PIEDS in spite of lavish INBREEDING  ( thanks to you, I as I did NOT want to have them in my breeding program, apart from that, your other buddy, Dreadlocks had a male ST Bernard and until my 34th litter I was convinced that he jumped the fence!)
, these were the very first pieds in qld if we were led to believe it,

"And don't bother to bombard me with hatemail, i'm used to it." No wonder you are used to it, Jan, I neither know your address nor your phone number, and certainly don't want it, thanks. You could have never had a dog from me direct, and I never wanted anything from you. Thanks to Hunzeal Count Courageous you had a string of LOVELY bitches.
The last I know you have a 1/2 Mastoch dog from a woman called Roz in Qld.
Lastly...with all these ' records' you have please post my ' charge ' & recourse' as stated by the rules of the defunct...easy to see why...Mastiff club....you have my full permission and I'd sincerely would like to know just WHAT it was 16 or so years down the track as Dear Andy & Co. forgot to post it to ME!
Wow! ALL pieds come back to me?! Am I a pied specialist? I will have to take all this seriously, now I'll have to look at my great -great grandson, Janine's dog & the other gorgeous pied Peter so kindly posted pedigree...see Janine, how happy I made you? A great tragedy that you lost him. I did NOT think he was a double Hunzeal??
Honestly, serious folk out there who are reading this thread, I am so, sorry! Amasha.


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Reply with quote  #270 

First off ... where did Peter post pedigree of gorgeous pied????


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SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #271 
Just an objective observation.

If possible, we are perhaps seeing a laboratory into the merits of cross breeding Saints into mastiffs.

If true, and we can only speculate at this juncture, we see that if the Saint were in fact crossed to the mastiff, bone has not necessarily improved beyond the normal variability of the general mastiff population.

So, the urban "myth" of greater bone achieved through the crossing with the Saint, is not necessarily verified by those who have witnessed pieds, which may in fact have come about due to that very cross.

Just something informational, which may be determined in a short time, once DNA can actually test breed lineage!

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"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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hunzeal

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Reply with quote  #272 
Steve,
"if possible, we are perhaps seeing a laboratory into the merits of cross breeding Saints into mastiffs."

Not that I am a pied specialist, I strongly feel ( and have been told by a
'reputable' breeder in England years ago, that Newfoundland was ALSO introduced into the Mastiff. Where did Dozer get his colour? That's not a traditional Saint colour, surely?

 I have a strongly line bred dogs to begin with and then I put full brother to sister 14 months ago resulting in 4 pups. Peter uses the SAME vet...can be READILY substantiated!

9 times Hunzeal on their pedigree...which then also go back to some FULL brother sister mating before them...so about at least 30 times Hunzeal in the background...( somebody else can add them up!) therefore, potentially Deer Run
4 pups....all a good size, one ' reasonale ' white chest, I tiny white, 2 NO white at all, Black toe-nails.
Both bitch and the dog especially, Massive ! Gloria can tell you just what wonderful boning they have...so go figure! Amasha.

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Reply with quote  #273 

Sorry just recounted...10 TIMES Hunzeal initially, not 9!...so in a 3 generation pedigree ALL dogs on the pedigree are Hunzeal other than 2 ' outsiders' which are 1/2 Hunzeal anyway. So go figure.
Amasha.
I am curious as to just WHY is this perception we seem to have about Pieds being bigger??? In my litter they were, but that was only at birth...could have been other variables.

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Reply with quote  #274 

Dozer certainly looked like the Buffon interpretation of a pied mastiff and perhaps he was a throwback. But there are other "pieds" that do in fact have a Saintly color pattern and it would be foolish to rule over that breeds possible involvement.


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
NFS

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Reply with quote  #275 
Jan and Peter, please let it rest. You are giving me no choice if this continues, but to seek an alternative solution. Claimed LIES have to be substantiated.

 
Dear Amasha you have many choices I suggest that you go back and read all your own  post to this forum and see just how many times you have contradicted your self and what you have said before you go shooting your mouth off.
Then go and read your work in progress I am sure that some where back in these post some one asked to explain why your web page had something on it
I have not looked at your Page myself for fear of vomiting.
But I do need to tell you at this time that the courts do not view wording as you do and when you make a claim to be most successful at some thing you really do need to give reasons for the claim and that leaves you wide open to legal action when you tell lies
I can not under stand why you no longer put B.A after your name at least with the B.A after you name everyone knows what you are that could make life a little easier But then again most people already know you are a B.A.
Do have a good day


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[PDF]

Alpaca Color Genetics: The Genetics of White Markings By D. Andrew ...

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
recessive genes from both parents. Some breeders might be afraid that breeding Blackie ... Color is still quite. arbitrary, and huge numbers of animals are ...
http://www.alpacagenetics.com/AndyMAlpacaWorldArticle6.pdf - Similar pages

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Reply with quote  #277 
Very much like Janine's Dozer..........


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!

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Reply with quote  #278 
Amasha's not the only one "who has shot her mouth off" Peter ! And, like you, me, & quite a few others...we have those that dislike us.
Heard plenty from people while in Oz, and it was not about Amasha.
(Just comes within the great Mastiff territory.)

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Reply with quote  #279 

HELL just as well !!! It would have been pretty bloody boring !


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Reply with quote  #280 

Gloria - welcome back! I am so happy you are back home again. Can't wait to talk with you and maybe see some pictures?


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We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.

We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
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Reply with quote  #281 
Right on Linda! Sydney harbour is awesome, as are the Blue mountains.
I can see why so many stars live, or own homes there.        
I'll also add that Amasha's bitch Zeena, is above average in every way. If she
were here in the USA, I'd put my money on her to be ranked in the top 5 !!
She could easily win BOB or BOS at Bucks/Trenton in 2008.

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Reply with quote  #282 

I am so glad that this is the last page. Hometruths, hate, and twisted truths are not what any of this is about. My point was pieds being bred, oh, and I did only own one of the daughters bred, looks good though if I bred both. My point was it took me till the dog was almost 3 years to decide to breed from her, she was a apricot, but a lot of my breedings were expermential, as I had to know what would come of things. No blame was ever laid on any kennel, my articles were about what I had done. I did name the dogs. I was glad she did not fall pregnant, because it may have been more pieds, it may have been less, I could not even guess. Two things I did learn though, it is recessive till conected with others carrying the gene, I saw your report on the S gene, and the stronger it is connected it will grow. And you can breed from all dogs related without it surfacing, but connect the two carrying it and the right colours and whamo. In 1991 when this litter was born, I thought I was the only breeder in the whole world who had bred a colour like it, that was my comment about "if we were led to believe", yes, why is everything about you ac, when the pups were born after the storm, or should i say in the middle of it, read my article!, I sent every bit of data, photos, to Sydney geneticists, who sent me quite a lot back, their conclusion was it was expressing itself with the apricot colour, oh, and this was not your valued conclusion ac, it was theirs, and mine when i published it. But what they stated was amazing it had to do with clean white coloured dogs with some sort of slight black ticking on guard hairs. Their conclusion, it had to be these colours to produce the pieds. Now the strange thing is even the brindles + apricots and the brindle+ fawns are producing it. Every bit of evidence came from the apricot fawn+black guard hairs. All we can conclude is it is dominant in these dogs. Just thought I would give the insight into the pieds back 16 years ago, whether it helps or hinders the problem is up to the now breeders.   And on the amused side, I have to say " dreadlocks" whose name is Melinda, St.Bernard would have been quite exhausted to have jumped my backyard, considering he had to run 40klms., all the way from redcliffe, stopping at the roadside rest areas, to catch his breath, then jump my fence to be eaten by 9 mastiffs, and finally drag his poor body up to mate my josie!LOL. Was a mating not done to her inferior bitch, and the result a registered litter, proof. And oh, did not the famous crossbreeder have 4 registered mastiffs, and a registered bitch, and a call to the breeder of 'Kinghorn The Guardian' before i did a mating. Now I could go on and on, but the twist of things to stick knives in anyway we can if it will shut me up, will not work. I will not longer comment on this anymore, if anyone was interested they can contact me privately, this is no longer being discussed on the web. And as to  action, believe me i will be living in someone's house when they try. I hope this has given an insight into my pieds at that time.  OH and I forgot, I am definately going to start my own thread so I can bash myself to death. Anyone interested can bring their own brick, because I can tell of my other expermential matings, didn't dig deep enough, did you? OMG I had one pup with ocd, OMG i had one pup with an eye problem, someone got involved with that one too. But my alltime classic favourite is " what do you get when you cross hipscores of 44 and 3" give up? an 8, well 2 pups scoring 8's. the 3 was mine of course, I learnt more of what was with my mastiffs, than most could learn. But hey, that's only because i was stupid, not smart. Forever end of comments.



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Reply with quote  #283 

Were you ever able to trace the Pied gene back to certain dogs ?  How far back were you able to go?  I am sure everyone denied association, but it is interesting where it is popping up and most of us line breed.

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Reply with quote  #284 
Janine's photo's of Dozer

   

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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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Reply with quote  #285 
No go Steve O! The first 2 say webpage expired!

Barrie

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SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #286 

Always have this problem with AOL, do you see any of the photo's?


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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Reply with quote  #287 

Yup, just not these lol.


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Reply with quote  #288 

Red X syndrome...all of them...


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Reply with quote  #289 

Dozer for Janine:




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.





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Sunstone

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Reply with quote  #291 
Now THAT is a lap dog! Beautiful!

Barrie

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Reply with quote  #292 
Thank you for that Deborah, I appreciate it.
Barrie, he was the most wonderful lap dog, he always sat with his bum on the couch and if I was sitting there he would sit on my knee.  I dont remember how many times I had to pull the cat out from under him either.  Visitors loved it, they would sit on the couch and he would plant himself next to them (or on them), he did it at other peoples homes too, sit bum on couch or chair.
Janine.


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For the Fun Times, never the Sad






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Reply with quote  #294 
The Mastiff Head on his side, just in case someone missed it


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Reply with quote  #295 
What a beautiful boy .

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Reply with quote  #296 
I love the Mastiff head on his side!

I have one that sits that way, when we go in the car, she sits on the seat like a human, with her back legs hanging off!

Barrie

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Dozer with his Shepard rescues





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The Sheppard's at 13 months old--Yes I do believe you may be keeping them Janine, but why not they are perfect





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Reply with quote  #299 


Reminds me of Dozer...poster is from 1856

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Reply with quote  #300 

Deborah, I am sorry for not replying to your question sooner. Please forgive me, somehow my computer went crazy, and my protection package got wiped out, have no idea how. I will post on what I learnt by mating my dogs with related, and outside dogs, I found it quite strange how you could  easily change the pied colour and not produce it even though you were using similar lines. I am sory Peter, you are right if a dog does keep producing pieds, it should be taken out of a breeding program, but you have to test both dogs, sire and dam and if either still produces it , then you must remove it, though I might add, I just mean, do not breed from it again. I am on holidays YIPPEE from Sunday, so I will try to explain my reasoning. And Janine, like you I am a bit of a dunce with my computer, so I will be looking at one of those very useful threads to learn how to send photos. I actually bought a huge book, but it bores me to read it, much rather read cartoons. Take care everyone.

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