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#1
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I would really like some thoughts and opinions on this phenomena of turned out front feet.
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tatetori2
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#2
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They call it Easty Westy and I think it happens when the pup grows to fast and the bones are not strong enough to hold the weight.
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LindaGreesonRice
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Posted 04/18/07
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#3
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We commonly call this an easty-westy front. It is definitely a genetic thing. If the structure is correct and the dogs rib cage is spread you will not have it.
Sometimes as puppies are growing and their rib cage is not spread yet, it is there. It should disappear as the puppy grows.
Good nutrition, proper exercise and correct structure should not produce it.
Some bloodlines never have it - some usually do.
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We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.
We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
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every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
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LindaGreesonRice
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#4
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Think about what a handler would do in the ring to correct it - they would lift the leg, by the elbow, back - and usually out. So I guess that is what is wrong with the front - elbows to far in?
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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit
The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm
We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.
We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
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tatetori2
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Posted 04/18/07
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#5
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Makes sense .
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Tracy
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Posted 04/18/07
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#6
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Ok, I have a girl who is very east to west, and she received very good nutrition, alot of excercise, ect. We had to pick up her arm at the elbow, and turn the leg very far in on both sides, sometimes she would hold it, sometimes she would not. Hard to tell, and she did not out grow this at 16 mos. Very big chest on her for her size.
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LindaGreesonRice
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#7
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Well, that blows my nutrition/exersize theory!! hahahaqha!!
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Linda Greeson Rice
AKC Breeder of Merit
The Mastiff Sweet Spot
http://www.bluequaker.com/Mastiffs.htm
We do not breed often, but we do our best to breed top quality mastiffs
with excellent pedigrees to back them up. All breedings are carefully planned to produce
the very best mastiffs, sound in both body and mind, beautiful and strong,
representing the true mastiff standard.
We fully test our dogs. We believe that a person that "just wants a pet" has a right
to own a beautiful, well bred dog that is sound and healthy
every bit as much as someone wanting a "show dog".
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Posted 04/18/07
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#8
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I've never had a bitch do this, but it is not uncommon for some of the fast growing, big boys to do this. In the front, I call it "easty-westy." In the rear, I call it "cow-hocked." Both are serious faults in an adult dog or another breed, but not uncommon in the big Mastiff boy pups. My Louie went through this front and back as a pup, and completely outgrew it.
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madchemist
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Posted 04/21/07
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#9
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What about sitting with feet "easty-westy" but standing with feet forward? Is this bad too?
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http://madisonmastiffs.tripod.com
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SteveOifer
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Posted 04/21/07
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#10
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The dog in my avatar is the same dog on the right.
In the first shot he is toed out and in the next post he's toed in.
Most dogs adjust their stance to conditions and terrain and it's natural to toe out somewhat when they are in a relaxed mode and young!
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SteveOifer
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Posted 04/21/07
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#11
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Same dog on left toeing in a bit.............
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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SteveOifer
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Posted 04/21/07
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#12
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George in motion, upper left 1st photo and toeing out 2nd photo and toeing straight (front legs) 3rd photo...........
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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SteveOifer
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Posted 04/21/07
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#13
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 George toeing out again on lower photo. Upper photo is an ad that Diane Conboy used after her litter from Boulder (natural breeding done on my premises).
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Posted 04/21/07
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#14
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Ernie is easty-westy - although he is young I am wondering if he is stuck with it.
I find him a bit over loaded in the shoulders right now too and wondering if there is a correlation between the two. It is very noticeable when he sits, standing not as much and I could stack him in such a way as to hid it but by all means it would not be a natural stance. I was looking at Mastiff Images and in the group shot noticed the big guy King Kong sits like Ernie....also the big old boy Lincoln standing...here is a web site with the pictures
http://www.bbpress.nl/dog_art/mastiff_images.shtml
a photo from last month
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armortrails
Registered: 02/26/07
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Posted 04/21/07
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#15
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Angie,
I think he is to young to be sure. My boy was easty westy at about six months, and hockey too! He is perfectly straight now at nine months, both front and rear. Those growth spurts can be awful.
The first picture he was six months, the last two he is nine months.
Attached Images:
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Posted 04/21/07
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#16
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With all do respect, most will not grow out of it, and this dog appears to be using his rear legs more than the front based on the toe nails....
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SteveOifer
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#17
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With all due respect, who are you?
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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Posted 04/21/07
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#18
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Do you think that it has something to do with the size and looseness of the toes? Coming from bullmastiffs who had very tight toes and this being my first mastiff I have always found fault with his front feet in general, although at 10 months they are looking more "acceptable" but no where near what I would desire in feet when comparing them to the standard.
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armortrails
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Posted 04/21/07
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#19
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With all due respect, you are wrong!
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SteveOifer
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#20
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http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.greatdanelady.com/Images/dog_legs_hod_3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/growth_problems_in_puppies_part_3.htm&h=262&w=172&sz=9&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=2UjpEOLtHuXPUM:&tbnh=112&tbnw=74&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddog%2Blegs%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGGLJ,GGLJ:2006-10,GGLJ:en
http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0018.htm
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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#21
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http://www.canismajor.com/dog/feet.HTML ......By simple deduction, call it "cow hocked" in the back, or "east to west" in the front.....One will always compensate for the other....
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armortrails
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#22
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Darn, I guess your right. I think you should write AKC and tell them they are wasting everyone's time, making dogs run around the ring, and stand in a stack position.
When all they need to do is sit down, so the judge can look at their toe nails.
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SteveOifer
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#23
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You can have a straight front and be cow hocked in the rear and vice versa, they are not mutually exclusive!
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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Posted 04/21/07
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#24
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Kara, If and animal is favoring either the front or back, you will see different lengths in toe nail growth....Not rocket science, just common sense... Any of the "real" old breeders will tell you the same thing....
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armortrails
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#25
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That may be true if all the toe nails are rounded and point down. However, not all mastiffs have perfect tight feet, and perfect toe nails.
I have also seen a difference in wear patterns on white toe nails compared to black.
BTW, I have a boy that is a digger, he has little nubs for front nails. By looking at a picture, you would tell me that my boy carry's his weight in front, and you would be wrong.
You cannot tell from a picture the habits of this dog.
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SteveOifer
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#26
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I agree Kara!
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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Posted 04/21/07
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#27
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Kara, There is always exceptions to the rule...Environment would be one....Since the rear nails are short....I don't think digging is the cause...Angie's dog is pushing more than pulling...It' most likely has loose shoulders...May tighten, but not likely.....Look to the pedigree for the truth....
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#28
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DPTB has a good point here.
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armortrails
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#29
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Well, we can agree on that. I would also say, look to the pedigree for answers.
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SteveOifer
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#30
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Or we could look to Don!...LOL
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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SteveOifer
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#31
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But the nails on the right rear foot look shorter than the nails on the left rear foot.......therefore, it must be a problem in the differential, or transfer case!
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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SteveOifer
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Posted 04/21/07
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#32
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We can speculate till the cows come home........
Maybe he likes to push dirt behind him after he craps, or maybe he's up on his rear toes more than his front and therefore, they wear down more than his hare footed front nails. Perhaps his rear nails were clipped last month and his front weren't. Maybe he chewed a nail, or broke one, or...................
Go look in his pedigree!
LOL! I don't see excessive wear on the rear nails. There are a couple of toes that have slightly shorter nails than others. You can't draw any conclusions from that picture!
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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Posted 04/21/07
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#33
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If you all are talking about my dog - well guess what! he hates having his nails clipped and I never get them all done at the same time....and btw I think the black ones do get worn down easier or the white ones grow faster - one or the other, or both?
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SteveOifer
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#34
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The melanin wears better than toes without melanin!
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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Posted 04/21/07
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#35
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Steve what is Don?
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tatetori2
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#36
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or maybe Angie clipped the back nails but didn't get to the front. Why don't we ask her.
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#37
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Better to ask Ernie but then he always changes the subject when it comes up LOL
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#38
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I'm sorry, but I joined this board after lurking for sometime, and thought I could be of help....If you feel the need to attack go right ahead....Steve, having seen your dogs, I can understand your Librarian approach to giving advice...I can't say it comes from experience....I have to agree with Patty G.
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SteveOifer
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Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 23,443
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Posted 04/21/07
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#39
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Funny how both DPTB & lovinmymasiffs, both have no real names, just started posting and are in total support of each other, while Linda is off at a show! Sound familiar?
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For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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SteveOifer
~ TOP SUPREME POWER POSTER~
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 23,443
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Posted 04/21/07
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#40
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Just reveal your real name and stop hiding behind your handle!
You pulled the same crap on Jann's board last week when she was at a show! Only cowards hide behind a curtain and blindly knock Willowledge, Buckhall, Farnaby, Peach farm & Massalane stock!
__________________
For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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armortrails
Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 107
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Posted 04/21/07
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#41
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You thought you could help, by directing people to another board?
Or you thought you could help Angie by saying that the structure of her dog is incorrect, by looking at its toe nails?
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Kara
http://www.armortrailsmastiffs.com
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Registered: Member deleted
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Posted 04/21/07
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#42
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I do have a question about Georges movement....I noticed a poor gate by where his rear feet are landing after the front...Did he out grow it????
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SteveOifer
~ TOP SUPREME POWER POSTER~
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 23,443
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Posted 04/21/07
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#43
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No doubt you like ballerina movement and wouldn't know a mastiff if one landed on you!
__________________
For the betterment of the breed!
"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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tatetori2
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Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 12,623
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Registered: Member deleted
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Posted 04/21/07
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#45
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Well I am very sorry that I didn't introduce myself. My name is Carol Mckinnney and I live in Alabama. I have a husband, three grown kids and two grand children. I am loved by two mastiffs Thor and Athena. They are both 5yrs old. My eldest son got them for me when my husband had to start traveling alot with his job. Fortunately he will be able to retire soon. My son didn't know much about how to find a breeder so he looked around a little and found a back yard breeder. I still love my furry kids even tho they have no pedigree. Anyways I have been reading up on mastiffs alot lately and came across this board a while ago and just desided to jump in and post today. I am sorry if by some way I offended anyone by agreeing with this DPTB but I truly did agree with her. I am just here to learn and talk I didn't mean to offend anyone first time out.
Carol
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tatetori2
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Registered: 08/13/06
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Posted 04/21/07
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#46
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Welcome Carol. Your opinions are always welcome. Please feel free to chime in anytime. Did you know we love pictures here and we love all mastiffs?
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Mary and Cole
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Posted 04/21/07
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#47
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Welcome Carol!
OK so I had a sit down talk with my boy...told him how he has made me a laughing stock of the whole mastiff community with his mismatched nails. He felt so bad that when I pulled the dremel out he let me do one whole foot LOL I'll be back for more.
Oh the shame....peer pressure; does it work? Hell ya! 
Ok so the job ain't so great - I tried that bit about him being a work of art but he was not buying it at all.
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armortrails
Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 107
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Posted 04/21/07
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#48
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Welcome Carol  Different opinions should always be welcomed here. I think you just got caught in the middle of bad timing. Why don't you start a new post and introduce yourself with pictures. We love pictures!
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Kara
http://www.armortrailsmastiffs.com
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tatetori2
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Registered: 08/13/06
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Posted 04/21/07
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#49
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That foot looks great. Angie I feel your pain. It take two of us to cut Cole nails and it's not a pretty site when we do it.
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Mary and Cole
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tatetori2
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Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 12,623
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Posted 04/21/07
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#50
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Cole is better with the back ones too. I should go out for wrestling
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Mary and Cole
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