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pallone

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Reply with quote  #51 

 2007 anniversaries

10 years of Presa Canario in Poland

While doing some corrections on my site I’ve found some interesting facts. In this year - 2007 - we have some anniverasries. It’s now 30 years from birth of few special dogs. It’s 20 years from this shows on with were made selection of best units, it’s 10 years now that we have Presa Canario in Poland... but let’s start from beginning...

25 of august 1617 (Villa de Betancusria – Fuerteventura) – so 390 years from now Cabildo (Goverment) of Canary Islands let every person without being punished to kill every Perro de Presa belonging to their neighbors is they are loose and not tied.

270 years ago – 13 march 1717 we can find last note from historical archives of Canary Islands in with we can read that all dogs should be killed if they are in places in with there are many people. Also owning a dog is forbidden to every people that are not farmers or don’t own cattle 

This photo was taken 50 years ago (in 1957):

 

Photograped dog belonged to Francisco Leon Lorenzo. Photo was taken in Bańadero (Arucas). Falcon brothers were famous among other fans of presa.

 

30 years go in 1977 were born few special puppies. Among them were; Toby de Irema Curto, Gey de Irema Curto, Tamay de Irema Curto, Mora de Irema Curto... parents of this litter were: imported from Gran Canaria in 1975 and breed by Manuel Aleman (Arucas – Gran Canaria) -- Boby and breed by Juan Santana de Alamo (Las Tres Palmas – Gran Canaria) and bought by Manuel Curto Gracia - Piba. Children of this dogs – Boby and Piba – still are in most pedigrees of presas.

 

 

1977 is also year of birth of famous dog belonging and breed by Demetrio Trujillo – Tinto. Tinto was born in Vecindario (Gran Canaria). Today after 30 years from his birth we can find him in some pedigrees.

 

20 years ago – in march 1987 – pair of brindle Perros de Presa Canarios were for the first time in the history shown on International Dog Show “La Expo Otono ‘87”. Showing this dogs was one of the main steps to official recognize of the breed by RSC. This dogs were Faycan and Marquesa. Marquesa was breed by Jose Delgado and belonged to Emilio Estevez Molina and came from Gran Canaria. She was born in 1975. Faycan came from Tenerife and was son of Patagón and Nayra.

 

Also 20 years ago in june 1987 2’nd of two Regional Expositions of Perro de Presa Canario took place. On this two shows (this one on Tenerife, the other on on Gran Canaria) were shown 234 units of this breed from with 50 were chosen from Tenerife and about the same number from Gran Canaria. The show were held under supervision of Comision de Rasaz Espanolas).

 

20 years passed from day of birth of famous dog named Puntal who was breed and belonged to Manuel Bruno Aguiar.

 

Here are few photos from shown that took place 20 years ago (year 1987):

 

  Also 20 years have passed from birth of Roby – son of Piti and Mora. Roby belonged to Cristobal Surez Rodriguez.

 

 In 1987 (so 20 years from now) were born a litter from Azano and Nira. Among all puppies were also dogs such as Duda and Taoro. This litter came from Manuel Martin Betancourt.

 

25 October 1987 in magazine “El Dia” was published article by Manuel Curto Gracia named “EL PERRO DE PRESA CANARIO SERA UNA REALIDAD”

22 November 1987 alo in “El Dia” were published next article by Manuel Curto Gracia „EL PERRO DE PRESA CANARIO Y SU RECONOCIMIENTO OFICIAL

27 December 1987 – “El Dia” was published another article by Manuel Curto Gracia AL PERRO DE PRESA CANARIO SE LE CRUZA DESDE TIEMPO HA

10 years ago – on 4th and 5th of October 1997 VII Monografica del Perro de Presa Canario took place. Winner of show was Mencey – son of Verdugo who was son of Aaron that was shown on this Monographic in veterans class. CAC in open class for the first time in history of this show was gave to dog from mainland from Asturia – this dog was Ralph. The best bith was Rina – sister of Mencey. CAC was given to Tacher – daughter of Turco and Tana.

click on this link to see some videos from this show

MENCEY

 

RALPH

 

Also 10 years ago for the first time Champion of Spain title was granted to dog from mainland. This dog was born in 11.03.1992 and his name was Argual. He belonged to Salvador Serrano Anton (Alacant Bull).

 

In 1997 Champion (of Spain) title was granted to Uga breed and owned by Antonio Gomez Ramirez. Uga was born on 22.05.1994.

 

His Champion title in 1997 received also Verdugo – son of Aaron and Talia. He belonged to Jose A. Figueroa Bacallado. Verdugo was born on 04.08.1993.

 

Year 1997 was also very significant when we see what dogs were born there. 10 years ago thee biggest number of dogs that later achieved Champion of Spain and World Winner titles were born.

25.01.1997 was born Bruco (Daute x Tazat). He received Champion of Spain title in the year 2000. He was reserve World Winner in 2001. He belonged to Choro Ultracan.

 

25.01.1997 is also date of birth of another future Champion. Her name was Taifa. She was sister to Bruco and belonged to Fernando de La Paz Candelaria.

 

12.06.1997 was born a dog named Marlon Brando del Latet – Champion of Spain from 2005. He belonged to Abanicos del Jarama. His parents were Mancey and Ch. Carlota.

 

17.08.1997 was born a dog named Bronce de La Jacha out of Capitan and Tirma de La Jacha. He belonged Jacinto Martin Abrante. He is Champion of Spain from 2003.

 

17.08.1997 is the year of birth World Winner, Winner of IX Monografica and Champion of Spain. This dog was Tor that belonged to Antonio Gallardo.

 

24.08.1997 is the year of birth of Katu de Mayantigot – daughter of Ch. Vardugo and Ch. Uga. She belonged tochoro Ultracan. Her Champion title she received in 1999.

 

17.11.1997 another World Winner, IX Monografica Winner and Champion of Spain was born. She was Palma de Alacant Bull out of Ch. Tamaran and Ch. Carino. She was breed and belonged to Salvador Serrano Anton.

 

Now in 2007 we have 10th anniversary of importing first presas to Poland.

First presas came to Poland from Slovakia and were imported by Artur Tomaszczyk. A year later in the kennel “Przystań Abelarda” first litter was born. The breeder was Krzysztof Mrozowski. Parents of thes liter were Yeyo de Maxorata and Bety Hamigo. Among this puppies was female named Hera Przystań Abelarda. She have had few litter one of them with Kunta Kinte de Alacant Bull. Out of this litter was Drupia z Borów that was later crossed to Woo Doo Show Xanti Land and gave birth to Diva Tajemnica Mistrza (owner and breeder Izabela Pelińska). Diva breed to Ernest Koziołkowa Dolina gave birth to last years Eurtope Winner – Tahora Tajemnica Mistrza (owner Jolanta Zawadzka – Guanchos).

In the 1997 also first presas from Spain came to Poland. For the first dogs went to Sapin Waldemar Jankowski (Validus) and Agata Olejnik (Xanti Land). The took to Poland few puppies from Casa del Presa.

First dogs imported to Poland and born in 1997:

Born on 18.01.1997 Atila de Casa del Presa – son of Guanche de Nivaria Sur and Izana de Nivaria Sur. He was imported to Poland as an adult by Agata Olejnik and than sold to Lorenzo Giordano (Urocze Miejsce)

 

26.03.1997 is the year of birth of Puntal de Vega Lagunera – son of Ch. Tamaran and Bamba. He came to Poland from kennel Barnacan Bull to kennel Xanti Land in 1999 as adult. He received Champion of Poland title.

 

29.03.1997 was born Yaisa de casa del Presa – daughter of Ch. Barón II and Arona. She came to Poland as a 7 week old puppy to kennel Xanti Land. Yaisa is Champion of Poland and Club Winner. She is mother, grandmother and grand-grandmother of many Champions, Europe Winners...

 

In April 1997 two among other Tuna and Irbi de Casa del Presa were born.  Their parents were Tafur and Azoca de Canchas Ibakken. Yhe came to Poland as a few week old puppies. Tuna stayed with Waldemar Jankowski (Validus) and Irbi went to Wojciech Rosa (Dolina Rosy). Both females were Champions of Poland.

 

TUNA de Cada del Presa

 

IRBI de Casa del Presa

 

In 1997 also Samzara de Taguluche was born. She was daughter of Canelo and Bora.She belonged to Waldemar Jankowski (Validus).

 

12.04.1997 Kunta Kinde de Alacant Bull was born. He was son of Ch. Arual and Tinerfa. She came to Poland to Xanti Land kennel belonging to Agata Olejnik. He was champion of Poland.

 

03.06.1997 in kennel Barnacan Bull were bone Turca i Negra out of Tafur and Linda. Both future Champions of Poland. The belonged to Barbara Pałka (Mercator kennel)

 

07.10.1997 was born Doroamas de Adjemeto son of Dique de Canchas Mahan and Ch. Kima. He was Champion of Poland and Club Winner. He belonged to Agata Olejnik (Xanti Land)

 

From dogs that were imported from Slovakia 10th birthday would have:

Born on 28.05.1997 Fred Hamigo – Champion of Poland belonging to Stefan Jagieliński (Las Vegas). Parents of Fred were dogs imported from Canary Islands – Yeyo de Maxorata and Caramelo de Menta de Benacantil.

author:

Ewa Ziemska

"Rey Gladiador


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Deborah Pallone
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SHOW HISTORY

A NEW DIRECTION FOR THE PRESA CANARIO


Troski

It was not until 1986 that the people of the islands began to think of the Presa Canario as a purebred dog and decided to hold dog shows for it. On October 19, 1986 the I Muestra Regional de Perro Tipo Presa Canario, First Regional Show of the Presa Canario Dog Type, was held in Santa Cruz in the island of Tenerife, with the participation of 150 examples of the breed. On June 6, 1987, Manuel Morena Miranda put together the second show in Santa María de Guía in the island of Gran Canaria, to which were presented 80 examples of the breed.

Of this second show Carlos Salas Melero reports that, "amongst the 80 dogs presented there was of everything...many showed evident traits of crossing with diverse breeds: Bull Terrier, Bull Mastiff, Neapolitan Mastiff, American Staffordshire... In Tenerife, logically, Turcothe same had occurred. But the truly important thing was to verify how, amongst this population presented, existed a group of dogs with very similar characteristics within each other, which did not denote the influence of any other recognized breed. And, yet even more important, was to establish that those examples obtained the general approval of the enthusiasts. These examples were, without a doubt, the most beautiful and possessed, on the other hand, great character."

On April 18, 1989 the Sociedad Canina de Canarias, Canine Society of the Canaries, approved and elaborated the standard of the Presa Canario dog breed. TigreOn April 29 of the same year, the Presa Canario was officially recognized by the Real Sociedad Central Canina Española, Royal Spanish Central Canine Society, in Las Palmas of Gran Canaria. Due to the tremendous political strife between the two islands of Gran Canaria and Tenerife, the next two years would follow with the splitting up of the breed enthusiasts into three clubs.

The original Sociedad Canina de Canarias became the Club del Perro de Presa Canario de Las Palmas and is currently headed up by Miguel Vega. This club has had amongst its followers such well-known authors as Clemente Reyes Santana. The other Gran Canaria club, the Asociación del Presa Canario Faycan, which presented so many dogs in those early shows, became the Club del Perro de Presa Canario del Jardín Canario and is currently headed up by Julían Celís Sanchez. The most successful club, however, and the one that eventually took official Spanish recognition from Gran Canaria and brought it to Tenerife, the Club Español del Presa Canario is today based in Tenerife and headed by Miguel Angel González Pérez.

The Three Big Clubs


Club del Perro de Presa Canario de Las Palmas Club del Perro de Presa Canario del Jardín Canario Club Español del Presa Canario
Location Gran Canaria Gran Canaria Tenerife
President Miguel Vega Julían Célis Miguel Ángel González
Supporters Clemente Reyes Santana
Manuel Martín Bethencourt
History Originally called, Sociedad Canina de Canarias, it was the first club to be formed. Originally called, Asociación del Presa Canario Faycan, it was the first to produce many show winners. A newer club based on the other island, it is the only one currently recognized by the Real Sociedad Central Canina Española.

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Reply with quote  #53 
H, I am with you on this one...he is so stunning! I want a dog like that just so I can look at him all the time. Good thing I have 85 acres in the woods and no kids.

Deb, thanks so much for the enormous wealth of information! The history of this breed is fascinating to me because it's so complex.


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Julia

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pallone

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Reply with quote  #54 
When you asked on the other thread ..I said I would help   I have found that if you read about the Mastiff Types and learn some basics of other Mastiff dogs.......You can understand our Breed better.
 
This is amazing on the Character Test for them in the ring.  I agree with you the dogs have a Beauty to them and it is a reminder of when a dog is bred for a function.......the animal's characteristics can be of great value.  The function of a Presa would not be for an apartment dwellers as just a Pet, and the trials of owning one there would hinder both dog and owner for the best of life on each, but in your area with acs, great protection and a loyal companion.  I think Burt Reynolds might have made it out alive in Deliverance if he had one of these dogs.
 
Watch how this Character test works:  
 

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Reply with quote  #55 

Quote:

I think Burt Reynolds might have made it out alive in Deliverance if he had one of these dogs.



He did make it out alive.

H

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Reply with quote  #56 
Burt did make it out alive!

Pound for pound, one of the strongest breeds around!

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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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pallone

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Reply with quote  #57 
Awwwww you guys are right........it was Ronnie that died

File:Ronnycox.jpg


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Reply with quote  #58 

Typing while you posted H!


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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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Reply with quote  #59 

__________________
For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #60 

__________________
For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
pallone

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Reply with quote  #61 
I think it is interesting that once again we are reminded that the translation can differ in a Standard

FCI STANDARD #346 Dogo Canario
 Canarian Dog
ORIGIN: SPAIN
UTILIZATION: Guardian and cattle dog 
CLASSIFICATION F.C.I.: Group 2 Section 2.1: Molosser Ð Type: Dogo


BRIEF HISTORICAL SUMMARY: Molosser dog native of the islands of Tenerife and Gran Canaria, in the Canary Archipelago. Emerging as a result of crosses between the "majorero", a pre-Hispanic cattle dog originating from the islands, and molosser dogs brought to the archipelago. These crosses originated an ethnic grouping of dogs of "dogo" type, of medium size, of brindle or fawn color, marked with white, of robust morphology, characteristic of a molosser, but with agility and drive Of tremendous temperament, rustic and of an active and loyal character. During the XVI and XVII centuries their population increased considerably. Numerous mentions of them exist in the historical texts prior to the conquest, mainly in the "Documents of the Town Council" which explained the functions that they fulfilled. Essentially they functioned as a guardian and cattle dog, as well subdued the cattle for the butchers.

GENERAL APPEARANCE: Molosser dog of medium size, well balanced, of straight profile, with a black mask. Rustic and well proportioned. It is mesomorphic; the body is longer than the height to the withers. Females accentuate this characteristic being slightly longer.

TEMPERAMENT/ BEHAVIOR: Their appearance is calm. Attentive gaze. Especially equipped for the function of guarding and traditionally used for the handling and driving of cattle. Their temperament is balanced and of great self-security. Serious and profound bark. He is gentle and noble with his family, with great affection to his owner, and suspicious with strangers. Expression is confident, noble and a little distant. When alert his attitude is very firm and the gaze watchful.
HEAD: Is massive, brachycephalic, of solid appearance, and covered with loose hanging skin. Its shape is a somewhat lengthened cube. The proportions of cranium-muzzle are 60%- 40%. The width of the cranium is 3/5 of the total longitude of the head.
CRANIUM: Lightly convex in anteroposterior and transversal directions, although the frontal bone is flatten to the plane. Zygomatic arch very pronounced, with well developed temporal and mastoid muscles, but without being pronounced. The occipital crest is unappreciable.
NASOFRONTAL DEPRESSION (STOP): Defined, but not abrupt. The middle furrow between the frontal sinuses is marked and occupies approximately two thirds of the cranium. The craniofacial lines are parallel or lightly convergent.
MUZZLE: Shorter than the cranium. Normally 40% of the total head. The width is 2/3 of the cranium. It is of very wide base and diminishes slightly toward the nose. The nasal line is flat, of straight profile and without ridges.
NOSE: Wide, strongly pigmented in black. It is inserted on the same line as the nasal cana. The front is set slightly behind the front of the lips. The nostrils are large, appropriate for easy breathing.
LIPS: The upper lips hang, but without excess and when viewed from the front form an inverted "V" where they join. The interior lips are dark.
MANDIBLE/ TEETH: Scissor bite. Level bite is accepted although not desirable due to the tooth ware that it causes. Slight prognathism permitted. The canines show wide transverse distance. The teeth are wide, with a strong base of implantation, with large molars, small incisors and well-developed and correct fitting canines.
EYES: Slightly oval, medium to large size, well separated, brevilineal, neither sunken nor bulging. They are well pigmented in black and tight, never drooping. The color fluctuates between medium to dark chestnut, in accordance with the color of the coat. Never light.
EARS: Of medium size, well separated, with short and fine hair, they drop effortlessly to both sides of the head. If they are folded, they are rose shaped, close fitting to the head. The base is at a point slighter higher than the eye line. Ears set very high and joined are atypical and excessively crowd the top of the cranium. If cropped they are erect.
HAIR: Short, rustic, very flat, without undercoat (at times might be found, in neck and buttocks) and with a certain harshness to the touch. Is very short and fine in the ears, slightly longer in the withers and crest of the buttocks.
COLOR: Brindle all ranges, from dark very warm tones to the very light gray or blond. Fawn to sandy in all ranges. Markings can appear on the chest, at the base of the neck or throat, on front and rear toes, it is desirable that it is reduced as much as possible. Mask always black and should not surpasses the height of the eyes.
HEIGHT & WEIGHT: Males: 60 to 65 cm. (23.5-25.5 in.) Females: 56 to 61 cm. (22-24 in.) In the case of very typical specimens, a 1cm deviation from the set maximum and minimum will be allowed. - Minimum Weights: Males: 50 kg
 I Breeder's Message--I would like to take the time to properly inform or direct you to the correct and only reputable source of information pertaining to the Perro De Presa Canario. First, I would like to start by stating a high percentage of American breeders misinform the American public only because they are not fully educated on the subject at hand !!! Listed on the Spanish Governments database from the Minister of Agriculture for the Canary Islands of Spain is a copy of the "Real Decreto", which is the official, true standard of the Presa Canario hailing from it's original country (REAL DECRETO.PDF). When you open and attempt to read the file, you may be a bit surprised to find it's written completely in Spanish (hence the reason your typical American breeder may be misinforming you). I strongly believe that in the American standard, portions of information were "lost in translation", so to say. Me being the more computer/internet savvy person then most dated breeders who try to entice you into believing what they are selling you is pretty much the best for your buck, I actually have taken the time to decipher out the true Decreto, in search of answers that couldn't be found. I did pretty much what any typical web head would do !!! I used a simple translation program (free translation). I myself find the coat & color section very interesting located on page 7 section VIII, all you have to do is copy paste paragraphs right into the translator so you can read what ever section it is that you inquire about. Thanks for taking the time to read this section. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER !!! Enjoy



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Deborah Pallone
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Reply with quote  #62 

I think if they had one of these dogs, no one would have been made to squeal like a pig


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Reply with quote  #63 


Say what?

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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
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Reply with quote  #64 
hahahahahaha now that was funny Mindy.
 
I only saw the movie once on TV years after it was released and had my eyes closed most of the time.  It was the scariest thing I had ever seen......did not even know what the pig scene really meant.  Times have changed since then, I should watch it again just to see if it is scary anymore.

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Deborah Pallone
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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Watch how this Character test works:  
 


This temperament test is amazing. Do you have any idea what the test is called or what the registry is for this test?

I do have a little knowledge about protection training, so thought I'd describe what is so interesting to me here...

In protection training, there are defensive dogs and prey driven dogs. Dog like shepherds are known for prey drive--they run after the bad guy as he flees. They have to have more training to develop the defensive reaction. Mastiffs are known for being defensive dogs, and I would expect most presas to follow suit (I know my own presa does). I know that many have seen this in their Mastiffs when a stranger approaches or puts physical pressure on the dog and the dog tightens up or even growls.

The guy with the whip and sleeve is called the decoy. In theis test, he first puts pressure on the dog by approaching with whip, getting close, straining at the dog, menacing body language. This Presa in the video does not have much reaction, though he is locking on the decoy. Then the decoy darts back, and the Presa moves in...that is a prey response. The dog bit in prey and not in defense. The dog bit hard and full (note that the decoy exaggerated his response...that is a common teaching move to build confidence in the dog). You would expect a fuller bite from a Presa in defense...this is quite the bite for a first time dog that has supposedly never seen a bite sleeve before. I have to wonder if that is true, though the fact that the decoy first approached with a naked arm does make me think that's possible.

Either that is one hell of a dog to be so naturally strong in prey or it has had some training before. Regardless, that was a tremendous response to the test. I am very impressed.



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Julia

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Reply with quote  #66 
That test was in Spain, but they give them here also--key words in red

 

 

 

   Dedicated To the Total Presa Canario  

About the club...

The Founding Years.
The Dogo Canario Club of America was originally known as the Presa Canario Club of America. It was started by an early American breeder named Tom Metzger. Tom had a small kennel going, and ran the club for a few years, primarily for his dogs registration. After a devastating fire costing him his house and several dogs, he decided to pass it on to someone else to carry on.
Tom passed it on to Tracy Hennings, who he knew through the local presa community. Tracy was mildly active in the early 90's presa show scene under the kennel name of Darkforce Kennels, and decided to take the club in a different direction. After viewing for herself the varieties in type being shown as presa canarios, ranging from mostly white dogs that looked like American Bulldogs, to 170 lb brindle mastiffs, to blue dogs resembling pit bulls, Tracy felt there was the need for a club that promoted the Canarian breed, not the breed made up in each breeder's backyard. There was also the need for a club that acknowledged that Hip Dysplasia was a problem in the breed, rather then pretending it didn't exist, or only existed in the "badly bred" lines.
The internet was beginning to take off then, and reach out further to bring more people together. So Tracy put up an ad seeking interested parties on the only presa canario forum at the time, Presa Canario on the Web, which was run by Canarian Elias Rodriguez Ventura from Gran Canaria. Through this internet forum, she attracted two supporting members, Carla and Steven Walker who helped establish and promote the club in its formative years. Through PCotW forum, and with the help of Elias Rodriguez Ventura, the club was then able to get in touch with the Spanish breed club, Club Espanol del Presa Canario, and it's president Antonio Gomez Rodriguez. Antonio was intrigued by this little club that was dedicating itself to what the breed really should be, not just capitalizing on the dogs being bred.
In the meantime, the club made it's first priorities to separate the correct presa type dogs, from the "pseudopresas"; to spread the word about Hip Dysplasia and hip testing; and to begin to show the presa as a working breed, rather then just the show dog and home guardian/companion it was shown as up to this point.
After much discussion, a show was organized. Letters were mailed and emails sent out to every presa breeder whose information could be found personally inviting them to the show. The first PCCA specialty was held in Ohio. We were the first club or organization EVER to bring over a expert breed judge from the Canary Islands...Judge Augustin Melo Lopez of Ancor Warrior kennels, and CEPRC licensed presa judge. Judge Melo Lopez was accompanied by CEPRC President Antonio Gomez Ramirez. The two of them would evaluate the american dogs presented to them, and discern the intent of this fledgling club, and decide it's fate in the breed.
People came from all over the USA to exhibit their dogs. Unfortunately, some went home unhappy, after being told their dogs weren't enough to be called presa. PCCA president Tracy was one of these people. She had two dogs from american bred lines, that were rejected by the judges, and one dog was approved. Instead of simply raging against the judgement, proclaiming the judges inexperienced (as some would later do to justify continuing to breed their rejected dogs), Tracy matched actions to words and altered the rejected dogs, and started her breeding program over.
After the approval process, which was called "Conformacion and Registro" in the Canary Islands at the time, there was a show held for the approved dogs. When that was done, Irinia and Alex Vyatkin, early PCCA members and presa breeder/trainers, put on an exhibition of obedience and protection training for those assembled.
By the end of the weekend, CEPRC President Gomez and Judge Melo were very pleased overall with what they had observed from this bunch of presa fanciers, and decided to make this fledgling club the first, and only, American delegation to the Club Espanol del Presa Canario.

Moving On...and continuing to break new ground
With their new international acceptanceby the FCI in 2000, and the support of the Spanish parent breed club, the club continued on their mission to spread the word about correct type, health screening and temperament testing. Each year, at least one specialty was held, combining a conformation show and temperament testing, or a working event as more dogs were trained in PP. The conformation shows were always judged by a Canarian or Spanish breed expert.
Along the way, members were lost and added, mainly due to personality conflicts or directional disagreements. Presa owners have to be a certain type of person to hang on in this breed, and quite often, like their dogs, that means they don't always play well with others.
When the breed was accepted by FCI, and the name was changed, the PCCA followed the lead of the CEPRC, and accepted the Dogo moniker, becoming the Dogo Canario Club of America. This enabled the breed, and our club members greater access to world events through the FCI. The FCI club in Puerto Rico allowed registration of US born dogs, and through DCCA member Luis Ortiz, our club was granted special privileges to continue to register un-papered dogs who met breed type requirements, regardless of their kennel affiliation or pedigree. If they demonstrated enough presa type to approved qualified judges, they were accepted into the FCI registries. We were the only presa club to have been granted this special arrangement.
In 2005, current club president Carla Walker and club member / WDCA co-founder Randy Green had an idea. The first few specialties the club held were open to all comers. After a few years of this, only dogs who had Spanish papers, or had passed "Conformacion or Registro" were allowed to show. Carla and Randy decided to open up the events again, and make it BIGGER and BETTER then had ever been seen in the USA before! They decided to call this show the "American Monographica" named after the big club shows held yearly in Spain and the Canary Islands. Again, all clubs and breeders that could be found were invited to participate. If you called your dog a presa, you were welcome to show, regardless of club affiliation, kennel, registry or pedigree. In the end, new CEDC president Ricardo Oramas Miranda was the presiding judge, and the Working Dogo Canario Alliance provided the working events and temperament testing. Close to 100 dogs participated in the two day event, making it the largest presa gathering ever. The second year the Monographica was held, beat the first year's numbers, and holds the record to this day for most participating presa's at an event.


For the Future...
The DCCA is constantly striving to continue it's efforts towards betterment of the breed. We walk a fine line between education and estrangement. Unfortunately we still continue to see problems in the breed that we saw when it all began. Although the breed as a whole has moved towards a better uniform "type" (no blue, no mostly white etc), the number of "breeders" have skyrocketed, many of them simply looking to make some money. Although public awareness has been raised about Hip Dysplasia, and several breeders screen for it, the ones that do simply aren't enough. Novice owners turned on to the breed, fall short in their research, stopping at the closest located "bargain" rather then investing possibly more for a better dog, and then ending up disappointed in various ways.
We continue working towards a more uniform, healthy, stable presa canario through conformation events, working venues and above all education.




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Deborah Pallone
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Reply with quote  #67 
the test

http://www.wdcaonline.com/ccf1.htm


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Deborah Pallone
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Reply with quote  #68 
I have a female Presa and we call her Sissy most of the time. She is a such a coward! lol I think it's because we already had a female english bulldog who is still the dominate female. Our Presa will bark but she won't investigate. Unless our bulldog "tells" her to. She is so funny. Has no idea she is HUGE hops on the couch and lays on top of your legs put her head by your face to get petted. Sweetest dog I have ever owned. I will always own a Presa Canario. I need to take some more pictures but it is very hard because she is dark brindle and hardly shows up in them! lol 
Prime

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Reply with quote  #69 
To Pallone,
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I'd like to start it off by saying, I do not condole in dog fighting, but as a man I wont shy away from debating what dog is the superior dog.
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Thats actaully a not bad list, but from what I have seen your numbering is a little inaccurate. Starting it off with your number ranked in the number 1 spot, the Tosa inu. I have seen Turkish Kangal's emit just as much power as the tosa has, an out muscle an pounded the tosa into submission an a few deaths. Which I am a little confuesed on your implementing the best fighter's, what do you mean? Fighter's as in who get's pitted alot, or who kills the other dog more often?
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Staffordshire's an pitbulls can't even dream to kill the other's on your list, they have the title "Pound for pound" champs, but you must be a fool to think Mayweather can take Muhamid Ali. Which I think your confused with staffy's an pitbull's fighting bulls, those are bull terrier's not pitbulls. Who even, when bull baiting, the bull's horns are sawed to smoothness an still kill an average of 6-10 dogs, before completely gassing him self out. They use wave after wave of dogs, not just 1 dog to fight bull's.
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This should be the list, of who kinda has the edge on who.
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1.Caucaisan sheperd's
2.Bully kutta's
3.Presa canario's
4.Turkish Kangal's
5.Boer boel's
6.Alabai's
7.American Bandogge's
8.Tosa inu's
9.Cane corso's
10.Fila brasilerio's
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Again, this is more of what I saw, threw the flooding of dog fight tape's an site's back in the day, which there is still a few site's, which I can show you if you'd like.
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Again pitbulls an staffy's are extrodinarly gifted fighter's, yet they only have stamina an will power over other dog's. I hear all day that they win that way, yet the only video's I saw of them winning, was the first second's those other dog's just submitted without even laying tooth, meaning it was the dog that just didnt want to fight, not the breed. Example, pitbulls are just more prone to fight like chiwawa's. Its sort of a instinct trait, meaning its alot easy'er to host a fight like how people fight chicken's, its almost a garentee fight. But if the pitbull goes up against another dog that in his mind he thinks... "
"Hey I want to fight too", then there is little to nothing the pitbull would opose to my list I made.
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Plus pitbull fan's over exaggerate to the max, like the site I know of a few people commentted on a fight, saying yeah pitbulls are the top fighter's in the world thinking that, that dog was a pitbull. When it was a 130 pound american bulldog, not a {40-50 pound average pitbull} being pitted with a ovtcharka an managed to break the ovtcharka's leg, because that's what american bull dog's have, eminse abiltie to dishing out the most brutal pain, but the ovtcharka still managed to do the same, an broke the bulldogs back leg with even more controlling of the entire fight, until both gassed out. But that exact site show's the abomanation of high hatred from dog fighter's of Russia, that hate the pitbulls title as a good fighter an displayed over 20 fights of different hammer dogs killing the most gamed pitbull's those 20 are beknownest fights being in Russia it isint illegal to fight dogs, who they have yearly matche's an has said that pitbull's show no threat to there dogs. Who had past record's making sure they were no fluke pitbull either, who they still persue in exploting, how pitbulls got there name's by throwing them in a pit to kill rat's, for gambling purposes. Thats how the name "Pitbull" came to be...
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...An on that same sight, there was a Turkish Kangal that fought a American pitbull an the Kangal killed the Pitbull in less than 30 seconds. I never knew a fight could be over that fast but again the real hammer breed's, dont have to worry about gassing them selve's out. When already there
"Bite Psi" are all above 500 an the pitbull's on national geographic channel tested by Scientist Dr braddy bar, who invented a Psi device made in 2006 to test animals around the worlds bite strength, with percise accurate-cy. Which he clocked in the pitbull's bite at only "236 Psi", only enough to tear flesh not enough to break human bone's, who a few others like the american bulldog clocked in at 320, the rottweiler 340, the german sheperd 280 and the boer boel at 550. You can watch it on "Youtube" by typing in, "which dog has the strongest bite in the world". Doctor brady barr exploited thousand's of bullshit scientist, who placed the pitbull's bite Psi at 20,000, when he scratched his head an said that goes against physic's, he said it would mean a pitbull could tear an elephants leg clean off, so he went on national tv an tested it only having 236 Psi, which the salt water croc bit down at a whoping 3000 Psi, giving the three most hardest animal bites from a bullshark, a hippo an crocidile
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But there are other dogs that can hold there own, like the fighting dog the Chinese Sharpei, an the Akita inu, the Neopolitan mastiff, the English mastiff, the Alano espaneol, the Austrlian bandogge mastiff, the Bullmastiff, the Great Perynee's, the Greater swiss moantian dog, the American Pitbull, the German Rottweiler, the German sheperd, the Sarplaniac, the Volkodav, the Dogo argintine, the English stafford shire, the American bulldog an Alpha blue bulldog and the list goes on, an on, to maybe around 200 dogs that can hold grounds, out of the 1000+ different mixed dog breed's in the world today. But the list of top 10, are the majority share holder's an they kinda only will win depending on individuality when pitted against each other.

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Reply with quote  #70 
For someone who doesn't condone dog fighting, you seem to have an extensive background & fascination about the subject.

Pallone is no longer an active member of this Mastiff forum.

It's unfortunate that some new members don't follow her lead!

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"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
Prime

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Reply with quote  #71 
lol, well I like watching horror movie's, war movie's, law and order, but do I kill people or even consider the thought? No! Come on buddie, what kinda crap is knowing somthing on the matter, mean I would condole or support it. I actually think people should get the same fate they put upoun there dog's to fight, for the owner to get beat up or killed.
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But I love contact sport's, boxing, kick boxing, mma ect ect... so a thought of a dog defending himself in combat, is somthing I dont see anything wrong with. For example, if a stray dog or animal or human intrude's on your property an threatin's him, you or your family in any way, and your dog attack's them, then thats a plus. But if your walking your dog down the street an come across another dog stray or not an take there leach off for a scrap, than fuck you.... that aint cool, lol.
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And I guess since that person isint hear, than oh well's.
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I was actually going to get a Presa canary x Boer boel next year, that's how I stumbled on this thread, I wasnt looking around for a debate buddie on what dog would kill another dog more in a fight. I actually fu#$%&* love the Boer boel an Presa canario to a Fu#$%^& tee. In performance wise of a
Guardian/hunting dog, I dont think any other breed can exceed both in there own element an job title. Sure of course a Rottweiler or German shepherd are the typical choice, but can a Rottweiler stand toe to toe with a leopard or hyena? Hell no. But in africa for the Boer boel it isint just folklore or just by luck, Boer boel's killing leopard's 1 on 1 are very well known to villager's an town's, that are in the live stock buisness or life style.
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But of course a leopard is no joke for any dog an can an has killed the Boer boel in the same fashion he does any other prey, but if any dog was to kill a leopard it's a Boer boel at around 200 pound's, anything smaller an less nimble would get over powered instantly. Hunting dog's fall into the catagorie baiter's. They dont actually kill the persued animal, they just by time for the hunter to spear, stuck, shoot kill the animal, while the attention is on the dog or dog(s).There are very few, I mean very few, that do the killing in few number's of 1 on 1 capabiltie's of using not only power an speed but smart's an calmness in a fight with a wolf, boar, bull, any type of "A" list"Predator" an can live to tell the tale. To my knowledge out of all the 1000+ mix dog breed's in the world only three different breed's has a documented account of manageing to kill a lion. The Kangal, the Neoploitan an the Boer boel.
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A story of a certian Sultan of Arabia had a gift from a Maharaja prince it was an anatolian sheperd puppy AKA the Kangal who he raised. Later in his prime year's the Sultan pitted lions an tiegr's together in his palace for a clash of the titan's match of the king of beast a small female Lion vs a tiger the lion won, after relaxing a few minute's later his Kangal squeezed into the arena unbeknowst with great fear for his dogs life, order'ed his guard's to kill the lion but before they made there way down into the pit the kangal got a hold of the lions throat an killed it, maybe because the lion was gassed out from fighting the tiger, I dont know, but thats the legacy of the Kangal.
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In Rome a certain Cesar had a similar story for the gladitorial event's, he pitted Neoplitan's again an again with other "A" list predator's an threw some miricale the Neoploitan truned the tide on a female lion an killed it hense Neo's have alibied as gladiator dog's, I was told there is a statue dedicated to that Dog in Rome.
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Lastly in a animal sanqtuary in africa they fed stray dog's to the lion's to keep up there hunting skill's. One day they flew in a Boer boel bitch, who felt her time was not yet up, she got a hold of a teen male lion's throat an killed him, its a popular an well known account in africa.
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We both know no dog on earth can kill a healthy full grown Lion, male or female one on one, but they still managed to come out with a one in a million victor that will forever be a acomplishment under there belt, that no other dog can an probably will ever be able to do.
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I do feel that this cross would aid each other's good an bad traits, to make an all around perfect attribute'ed dog. They both are fine as is, but alot of good, can come out this cross as well. Being that the Boer boel is now being alibied to have gaining a little poor eye vision an more of just for show, pleteing all of his prey drive an gameness, to where a Presa is second only to the Dogo argintine in hunting, yet excell's in everything else the Dogo lacks in, an would repair and increase a better eye sight, with a stronger will as well for the Boer boel. An there is no dog that can match the accomplished feat's of the Boer boel in his Guardian job title, for there an abundent of hunter/farmer african locals with stuffed hyena's there Boer boel's succesfully killed, while protecting there live stock, which is there key signature temperment, to love an protect there owner's an family's with there life, an are the most fit an muscle tone'd out of all the mastiff breed's. Who would also aid the forever hot tempered Presa canario's fighting drive, to a more calmer dog that only attacks if the time is called upoun. I truly love thses two breed's an just cant wait for next year... alright thanks dude...tootle's.

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Reply with quote  #72 
I rest my case!

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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
Prime

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Reply with quote  #73 
LOL
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Prime

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Reply with quote  #74 
Wow, so by the looks of your avatar, which I'm guessing is a bullmastiff or english masty,
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:Q: is that your favorite breed?
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I love Mollosor dogs of ancient time's, who's rare picture's an artifact's of them portray them much, much bigger, then they are today. I would'nt dought it, mostly every animal in a 10,000 year period, has been dwarfed for some reason.
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I think every mastiff, has a small pertage of bullenjiter's. Did I say that right?...lol, somtime's I get confused or is it bullenbeiser's, I think "Bullenbiser's" are pitbull's ancestry's. Yeah Bullenjiter's, that's the same dogs presented to King alexander or charle's, I think, that he used for big game hunting an latter animal baiting.
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There's alot of "Justice" in say in, bullfighting, compared to baiting where Metador's kill the bull, they actually live a better life than confined in small carriage's of live stock cattle, who are treated poorly from farmer's. The killing part suck's from the bull fight's but has a hint of honorable death's but mostly, like back in the day, when there was little to no regulation's, in what attributed bull metador's could fight, a single bull usually cleand out 6-10 metador's per show. That's why, rule's an regulations were set. The fighter's never were allowed to fight intelligent, Prime "Game'd" bulls more so, only very young an in-experinced an very old, about to die bull's an bulls that past the 1800 pound range, more so now day's 1400 is what is considered a bit big, Again I get a kick, when I read old storie's of prime bulls passing the 2,000 pound range, taking off metador's head's while superman diving at 45 mph XD.
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But it was a bit sad when they pitted Bear's vs Bulls.
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Many claim'ed a handicap was set for bear's, they usally have the bull tied to a large peg with a leash, an sawed off spanish fighting bull's horn's an used very small bull's to even out the fight. Even when the bear was a whopping 1400 pound's it was pretty rare for the bear to survive the fight. When mexican's claimed white men were just trying to be Bias an idlelize the bear because of putting bear's on a few of there flag's saying, bear's always kill the bulls, a band of mexican's brought in "Prime" bull's that weighed as heavy as 2000 to 3000 pound's, an pitted them with the best an biggest bear's white men could wager for money, an without even a challenge, every single bull that was matched with a bear, tossed around the bear's like rag doll's an gored them to death. from leaving what was natrual to the spanish fighting bull, his "horn's".
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But anyway's I'm into hunting dog's, not the baiter's who's job's are just to locate an distract the game animal so the hunter can stab, spear, or shoot him, dog's like Beagle's, Pointer's, Blood Hound's and labador's but more so the one's that kill the animal themselve's like Cane corso's, Presa Cnario's, Kangal's, Caucaisian sheperd's, an Dogo's those are pretty much the elite's in hunting... boer boel's too! But there quality an trait are more for the guardian an killing game animal's that way, instead of like the other's who are very very prone for the hunt an trek itself.
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I Heard they use to use Bullmastiif's an Great Dane's, back in the day to hunt game animal's like Boar an Bear's but it would depend what type of Boar an what type of Bear, we are talking about. Because they differ in size around the world. Because I've seen a Russian video of a large tiger that couldent kill a 1000 pounder Boar, who gave the tiger all he wanted making him abanden the ambush, so if a Boar can do that to a 400-500 pound tiger, I garentee you'll need at-least 4-10 average hunting dog's to do the job. Also a well known story, Ive heard of trek's an hunt's where a single man took out 4 Great dane's on a hunt and on arrival of a giant 1200 pound bear, the hunter's gun malfunctioned to shoot, an the bear had his way killing all 4 Dane's. The man brought back 5 hunter's an then shot that bear dead. Pretty sad, but I think maybe the only dog'(s) of 4 can kill a 1200 pound Bear, would have to be Boer boel's an Caucaisian's sheperd's. They have the Size an bite power to do so, a mid size boer boel bit down at 550 Psi, on the national geographic chanel using scientist brady barr's presure device, he made. A lion's bite around 1,100 an a Brown Bear's arround 900-1100 a Caucaian shepherd is around 600-700 that's actually not that far away from a bear's bite. Like I said beofore, the Boer boel's are well famed in Africa for dispatching leopard's 1 on 1 and a Caucaisain sheperd has a documented video on youtube, of 1 Caucaisian shepherd killing 2 wolve's. Plus Ive seen both breed's in there prime state's at 220 pound's an still not obese'd, very muscular an tone'd to speed, power an intelligents, but then again, maybe I could be wrong a 1200 pound bear would may need 6 or 7 of those to dog breed's to bring him down, of course 2 or 3 dog's might be dispatched easly from the bear,but threw tactical command an wearing out the bear by biting his leg's, will eventually be to much of an exashtion issue for that bear. An hey, if there's well documented account's of 8 wolve's that managed to kill, a full grown male Kodiak bear, than these two dogs probably can do better. lol
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Tootle's

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Prime

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Reply with quote  #75 
To erikam,
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Indeed it is, but you need to know history wether good or bad. But maybe you misinterpted my second to the last paragraph, saying Im into hunting dog's XD.
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I dont hunt an kill dogs, I use them to aid me in hunting, if that's what your disturbed about... how do you eat, are you a vegetarian or somthing? Here, in Hawaii, we catch our own food, not eat at mcdonald's all our live's.
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I like dog's classed as hunter's an guardian dog's, because I'd be to afraid of the boar killing a dog that has no accord in self defense, other than running away or attacking blindingly putting him self at risk, of getting injure'd. Regular dog's, tend to do that because it is not part of there temperment an intelligents, I've heard of dog's like, labador's an dalmatians' scaring off single wolve's an cougar's as novelty act's, but that's when they are aided an surrounded by human's an other dog's. But there are accounts of family's having there full grown dogs, getting dispatched in second's while there owner's were sleeping 8 feet away from him, while carried off into the night without putting up any struggle to even wake the owner's.
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No, I'll stick with guardian breed's an hunting breed's, I dont dislike small or average dog's but if I'm to own one, I rather stick with a breed that develop's being independent, not dog's that as soon as you'll leave the room an their depressed, lol.
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I hear alot, that labador's can hold ground's with game animal's, then I ask them where did you hear that? they alway's say, the movie.. "Old yeller" XD. I get a kick every time some poorly educated person, who even then own's a labador because of that, tells me those kinda of stuff. Old yeller was a Black mouth Curr, not labador retriver XD. Black mouth curr's are way bigger in muscle formation an has extremely cautiou's temperment's, putting them as a "Okay" guardian dog, above a few other's. Labador's albeit, there name's say's it all, Retriver" that's what they do, play fetch.
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As I said before the "Dogo argeintine", are in a class of there own, when it come's to hunting. I've been around my uncle's hunting dogo's my whole life, an they are elite's in what they do. Presa canario's could have been an equal but lack's stamina an intelligent's, dogo'shave keen sense's when to strike an know for some reason how to evade the boar's tusk's, out of all his dog's not one of my uncle's dogo's got even a scratch, when persuing huge boar's. But the presa excell's in gameness an power an can dispacth the boar or game'd animal with brutal output power, but they tend to not evade as much an accumelate's damage from the other animal, that although they bring the animal down most injurie's are fatal to them as well.
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I myself, for a few time's already, have stated I dont encourage dog fighting but I do like dog's being competitive an by experince an the way I saw growing up if the dog's do fight on there own accord, than my uncle's an anty's alway's said to let them sort it out, only stepping in if it get's out of hand, because in the end, when one submit's they alway's develop a tighter bond between each other. But I do completely disagree with how most pitbull's are treated from idiot owner's, who just want them to fight for money or street credit. Russian's an other's like Japanese an Chinese, have matche's that aren't really illegal but I like the fact that most fight's are never to the death, they stop the fight when one dog submit's or it get's a little to bloody. Unlike the purpose of pitbull breeding, which temperment was embeded to never quit, hense most pitbull fight's that are usually pitbull vs pitbull, are a lttle grotess.

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Reply with quote  #76 
Not ready for ...Prime Time!

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For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
Prime

Registered: 03/24/12
Posts: 15
Reply with quote  #77 
lol, Prime time was over 8 hour's ago, I"m killing my very last beer as we speak XD But you still have'nt answer my question, is that pic a bullmastiff an is that your favorite dog?
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Prime time
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #78 
Quote:
I hunt, but I don't like killing simply for killing sake


So Erika, what do you like about hunting? Just curious!

__________________
For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
Prime

Registered: 03/24/12
Posts: 15
Reply with quote  #79 
lol, nice. What are you trying to do, justify yourself? XD. I speak of it because of "Experince an knowledge" of the subject, which the last time I checked, those who know more, can accomplish more in preserving, protecting , avoiding saving, what majority of the world doe's...killing!
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I never waste'd a single ounce of meat from animal's I killed, to what? Survive, not go tip toe-ing around the truth, that 80% of human population's never kill's what they eat, they rely on slauther house's, restruants, fast food industrie's. Trust me, you have no idea how I wish I would never have"d to see documented video's, of slaughter houses killing live stock weekly, to have majority of the food not even "earned" to eat, it can be stolen to be eatin , given a peice of paper (money) to be eatin, an most go to waste.
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Dont talk to me about killing, if I'm to be called a "villian" for just knowing somthing, that I dont contribute to, an try to prevent it of in 80% of my exisitance, than what does that make you... *cough* *cough* "Hypocrite" *cough* *cough* Huh!
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You have no idea how people can save animal's live's by the million's perhaps billion's. There are seed's of fruit's an vegtable's, that can produce plant's an tree's, that can produce thousand's of food source's per year, per tree.

-{Now this is by experince, so pay attention}-

A (single man) "per day", of only around 2 to 4 hour's of his time.
[which is only 2-4 hour's, come on, that aint even that much time]
Can gather seed's of multiple vegatation's product's by the hundred's, you know --because there's atleast 10-20 seed's in certian food's--, dig a 4 inch hole, that's only bending an scooping which take's less than "10 second's", drop 3-4 seed's inside cover it, an sprinke only a hand full of water, in a repeating process of a month, till it can survive natrually on its own, an we are talking about that month now being over, in that time period, "Remember" this is one man, who can already feed the mouth's of thousand's in a year's process'es, when they bloom an sprout by the ten's of thouand's that, that plant or tree produce's by seed's of it's own, intriplelicating by million's if preserve'd in a cycle of that one man, which I give all credit to vegatarin's who know this by heart.
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If only you think more people would pitch in, NO! 80% of earth's population does'nt. They worry to much about stupid shit, like fancy car's, mansion's any item that is costly in the million's, if you simply bought a million dollar's worth of seed's that can produce vegatation source's, that one man on a automobile that goes at least 10 mph, throwing hand full's of seed's in a peice of well grade'd soil compound reserve, acher land per day. Can produce fucking million's of tree's like mango, papaya, tomatoe's. cucumber's, water melon, cantalope.. ect.. ect.. would be able to flood mother earth, with yearly food source's, that save's billion's of animal live's.
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Which I shit you not, once I get into the service, an stablize my money situation, that's exactly what I'm going to do... just aqurie seed's an plant the shit lode of editable crop's. So I dont know where your going with, knowing somthing, an doing somthing that even justify's you commenting to someone, you have no idea of there life style contribution's, who already most of my family does contribute beyound what you will do in your intire life span, who work in
--"Doe, Pinaple field's"--, why dont you try googling it, an see how much they contribute, not only for the island's of Hawaii, but for the world.

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Prime time
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #80 
Are you confusing the process with the end game?

What is enjoyable when the hounds catch up to the fox?

Or when the shotgun kills the hen, leaving her chicks to die of starvation!

No doubt the exhilaration of the hunt is something primordial in man and is sublimated through such activities.

But although I can understand running with the hounds, my heart is always with the fox!

__________________
For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
MaineMastiff

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 237
Reply with quote  #81 
Have to say, none of this recent tangent is really what I had in mind when I started this thread...

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Julia

UWPCH Mishka, Beast of the North CGC, OBT, WP1 December 10, 2005-November 11, 2011
MaineMastiff

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 237
Reply with quote  #82 
Thanks, Erica, I know I don't really get any say in where it goes    Just surprised by this recent turn... I live in the woods. I am very comfortable with hunting. But for me it is about food and population control and living closely with the natural world. Killing for "sport" is not my thing. I can't imagine letting a dog I love go boar hunting or anything where it could potentially get killed,

I've never seen an all black presa. She sounds lovely!

Our girl has natural ears, and though most presa people think it makes her look less like a presa, we prefer them that way. If one IS hunting with them though, I guess the crop protects them from ripping their ears.

Our presa is also older and pretty lazy--like our mastiff was, she will hold down the couch forever, but if it's time for a walk then she is all there. However, I have a Dutch Shepherd girl who is completely nonstop and smarter than anything I have ever seen...boy has she made me learn A LOT.


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Julia

UWPCH Mishka, Beast of the North CGC, OBT, WP1 December 10, 2005-November 11, 2011
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #83 
Quote:
Generally hunting involves taking the MALE of the species..for obvious reasons.


Typically, it's about population control, but in reality it's trophy hunting, with the bucks with the best rack getting taken. This passes on inferior genes and does little in the way of population control, as lesser males will still fill the gap.

BTW, I don't poison rats. I'm not in that business!

So tell me, what is the pleasure you derive from the hunt?

Is it about the chase, the man-dog interaction, or the kill?

If not the kill, how do you rationalize it away?

Just curious!

__________________
For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
SteveOifer

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Reply with quote  #84 

Animal Emotions

Do animals think and feel?
                                                                                                                                               

Killing Other Animals For Food Does Not Make us Human

               
There's nothing spiritual about killing innocent animals for unneeded meals        
                               

I just read an interview called "Killer Cuisine" that made me think about who we are in the grand scheme of things and also made me a bit ill. Georgia Pelligrini, author of Girl Hunter: Revolutionizing the Way We Eat, One Hunt At a Time", decides to go out and kill animals and writes about the epiphany she experienced when killing a turkey: "Killing the turkey was sort of my watershed moment; it sort of woke up a dormant part of me. So many horrible things happen in our industrial food system and I wanted to explore what it meant to step outside the traditional way of procuring meat, and really go back to the way we used to do it. I wanted the experience of participating in every single part of the process - from the field to the plate - and to make sure that there was no suffering (my emphasis), that every part of the animal was used and used with integrity. I wanted to pay the full karmic price for the meal." There's lots of "I's" here but what about "them", the animals whom she kills? There are two sides to the bullet, the hunter and the hunted, and this "It's all about me" attitude is an insult to the animal beings who are kiilled. 



I do agree that factory farming should be stopped immediately but Pelligrini's claim that the turkey didn't suffer is absurd. Stalking animals causes immense suffering for those who are stalked, and even if there were no suffering what gives her the right to kill an animal for a thoroughly unnecessary meal? Even if people stalk animals but don't try to kill them, the animals suffer greatly. Just seeing a potential predator, and hunters are viewed as predators, is stressful. Patrick Bateson, at the University of Cambridge in England, found red deer stalked by dogs showed stress responses similar to those experienced when animals were anxious and scared. Deer showed high levels of cortisol and the breakdown of red blood cells, indicating extreme physiological and psychological stress. Stalked deer also displayed excessive fatigue and damaged muscles. Non-stalked deer and those shot without prolonged stalking didn't show similar stress responses. There's no reason to thinik that birds would respond any differently.

Clearly, animals don't like the emotional distress, anxiety, and fear of being stalked and neither do humans. Stalked animals may also spend less time feeding, resting, and protecting young. The stalker's intentions, malevolent or not, are unimportant to the animal and there often is much collateral damage to family and friends of the targeted individual. 

Does killing other animals make us human?

Ms. Pelligrini, also writes, "If you want to feel what it is to be human again, you should hunt, even if just once." Hmmm. I feel rather human and find hunting to be offensive especially when it's for a meal that's not needed. She also finds hunting to be "emotional, spiritual, intense". What is spiritual about killing another being? Once again, the point of view of the hunted is totally ignored. Does she think the turkey or other animals feel good about providing an unneeded meal to a human predator? 

As I wrote above, there's lots of "I's" and "me's" (about the hunter) in these discussions but little about "them", the hunted. The implications of these claims, for few are really detailed arguments, imply much about perceived human exceptionalism and speciesism in which we conveniently place ourselves above other animals in importance, and in which animals are valued only for what they can do for us (instrumental or use value) but not for their own inherent or intrinsic value (for more discussion see). 

It's important to get the issues about hunting out for discussion. Others who have been vegetarian or vegan also become born-again meat-eating zealots when they change their ways and write as if there's no other way to live or to be human. They write self-serving flowery prose about their personal and spiritual journeys about how it's human and almost an out of body experience to kill other animals. Killing other animals is just fine for them and everyone should do it. But what about the animal whose life was taken because the human decided it was okay to do it? And what about the other animals who suffer the loss of family and friends? We need to factor in their points of view as well. 

The teaser image of Ms. Pelligrini carrying two dead wild turkeys can be found here.


__________________
For the betterment of the breed!

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well. Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything"...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
TEST YOUR DOGS!
Prime

Registered: 03/24/12
Posts: 15
Reply with quote  #85 
Hey, to steve oifer. I couldent agree with more, on your last post. "Trophy" hunting is uncalled' for. But population control is a little sketchy for me.
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Think of the concept, that human's "destroy" acher's of land's,(which we do monthly) in order to build houses, that has the "formailty" of lasting a few hundred year's, an the things they destroy to make room for can {never come back}... you know..if somthing intrude's on your land its called "trespassing" animal or human...Remember, animal's were in the area in the [first place], for who know's how many countless generation's. An now someone who just started head counting them for the first time they layed on eye's on them, an can place it as that speice's is over populating? Huh! No! That's not possible.
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I totally disagree when human's place the word that, that speice's is over populating, due to human's destroying there habitat an the sole reason why most animal's starve of not have-ing there resource's anymore, its "Ironic" that the truth is "WE" as in human's are over populating. To my knowledge, the only thing that I truley felt was over populating, was somthing that human deemed the animal to do un-natrually, like recently they colloect'ed a rare fish called silver carp, that feed's on limo or algie an swamp residue, where they orginated from china or japan I think, there was little of that resource's for the silver carp to survive on, so there number's were alway's steady. But when american fish farmer's brought them to clean out the algie, the fish did more than expected in record time, they started mutipyling by the thousand's an tens of thousand's simply because they can grow to immense size's, an dominate the local fishe's to extinction. I seen it on Tv an it was no joke, in the number's they multiplied by so bad, that there pond's over flowed with fish that, the pond's had fish sqwerming to get back in the water to breath an made way into some local river's.
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Again that fish I guess would've been ideal to grow, but they are highly dis-reguarded, because of poison in there glands, that must be removed which is a risky task of poison an that fish has abnormally has too much bone's being too much of a humbug an time consuming just to put as a editable product.
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-
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To erikam,
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In all the story's I presented, were not accounts from me, so again nice justifying yourself, an rat's to can be justify'ed to an extent but most of the world know's, how much they can destroy entire crop's of food, so that's why they are usually eradicated.
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An please go back an read #74 again. There is me having the crap lode of justifying. Me laughing at those animal's scenario's. Let's start off with me stating bull fighting "IS" better than bull baiting... bull baiting an bear baiting, is when human's capture a bear or bull, for bulls they saw off there horn's and for bear's they tear out there claw's an teeth, blind them with eye blocker's an release wave after wave of dog's to maul them, "NOT" for eating, more for gambling purpose's, that's why bull fighting is more leniancy tward's the bull, where it is almost fair game, that the bull can kill the metador. I laugh at metador's when they get gored to death an tossed around like rag doll's because they are the idiot's, that are the star of the promotional fight... cant you see that, with my selective word's that I use, I'm pulling for the bull?
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For the bull vs bear, unless they video camed or recorded, the event on the animal's natrual setting's, of the two encountering each other in the wild an clashing, then that whole pitting them, was ill-ly wrong. Hense my exact wording's {It was a bit sad} why are you putting word's in my mouth, that I wanted that scene to happen?
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Moving on, to using selective breed's to aid me in the hunt #74, which I stated I dont like using beagle's or pointer's, or blood hound's to run ahead, an search for that "Game" animal, not rabbit, or mongoose, or little fluffy animal's. Again game animal's, as in who can inflict ton's of damage or kill you. I have seen an abundent to a majority of video's of wolve's, bear's moantian lion's, killing 2 or 3 of there dog's that they used to persue them, so why would you even repeat the process of using a dog that majoritly get's killed in every hunt? Dont you see I'm thinking of there welfare, more than you apperantly do. Id rather use a dog that can find them, an not be dumb enough to make a foolish move unless they feel they can, an do, till I get there an do the job.
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An for the rest of the animal's you mentioned that I enjoy seeing killed Huh! I'm only refering to account's that happened for educational right's..you know...like what New's reporting station's do. Where in my grammar or punctuation, does it hint I enjoy there end fate's?

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Prime time
Prime

Registered: 03/24/12
Posts: 15
Reply with quote  #86 
An to, erikam,
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I hope you was'nt hinting, calling me a coward, just because I like dependable result's that leave the dog's to see another day. If fate took a wrong turn for me, I'd gladly take on a pack of wolve's with just a bowie knife, to survive. I am confused on how you justify your self, when you said you hunt an think right off the back, that I go on killing spree's when I could say the same to you of the word's you choosed to ehinsize your counter debate.
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You really need to tone your exact word's your choosing. For they are not well put into adressing what your saying. Dont beat around the bush, threw wordings of my exact choosing's implemted tward's me, as if your talking about "those guy's" an not "me", which is obvious.
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I dont know where it hint's that I do, please do me a favor an point it out for me, because I might mistake typo's but from what I see, so far of my entire posting I made it perfectly clear that I dont condole, support, stand behind, represent, take a like-aning to, an I even bash those who do, so by all mean's speak your mind.

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Prime time
Janine

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Reply with quote  #87 
Question for you Prime, do you source your dogs from Pet Central in Hawaii.
Just curious where these dogs of yours originate from.
Janine.

Prime

Registered: 03/24/12
Posts: 15
Reply with quote  #88 
To Janine
-
I have handled all the breed's I mentioned in hunting except for the list I made on #69 which I do know very well threw studying for year's threw, books an video's, but they were'nt my dog's persay, they were my uncle's in waianae. But to my knowledge, my uncle said a few time's, he brought them straight out of there home land's, which I wouldent dought, because he has so many picture's of him traveling the world, when he was in the service an I'm pretty sure he brought them from breeder's, hense he had paper's on them.
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But for the one's I'm getting next year, "Boer beol x Presa canario" from a guy in the mainland, has paper's stating, that his "Boer boel" is straight out of "South africa" an has paper's that his "Presa canario" is straight out of the Canary island's. But both breed's beside's literaly free, rescue dog's from pound's, shelter's an humane socioty's , are highly expensive, Ive heard some in the range's of 8,000 an up for quality breeder's, that are determine to improve there bad trait's an overall attribute's, not just dog mill's making a quick buck, that usaully end's having the bad side of the temperment which lead's to the dog's being, dog an human agressive. Ergo most get abandin to shelter's, because of bad results of back yard breeder's.
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Prime time
h

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Reply with quote  #89 

Respect your meat.

 

Positively identify the target.

 

Make sure you can take it out WITH ONE SHOT.  If you can't, don't shoot.

 

Anything other than that is disrespectful.

 

You owe it to the animal that is going to put food on your plate to assure a swift, painless death.  No animal that is going to be eaten by humans deserves to be ripped apart by a pack of dogs.  That is barbaric and cruel in the 21st century.

 

We have very accurate guns and scopes that allow us to take our game in the most humane way.

 

H


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Janine

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Reply with quote  #90 
Hman,
I think you are wonderful.
Janine.

Janine

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Reply with quote  #91 
Prime,
I was just curious as I have been doing some research lately and have found litter after litter of pure mastiffs being sent to this place in Hawaii.  All with papers.
I was just praying that they had not ended up with you.
Janine.
h

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Reply with quote  #92 

To Prime:

 

A guy in my neighborhood has two Boerbels.  They were loose one day and came after me, my Mastiff and my daughter who was in a stroller. 

 

My Mastiff faced them head on, roared at them, dragged me across the street trying to get at them and those fuckers cowered like a couple of bunnies.  He then layed down in the street between my legs wagging his tail while he stared them down!

 

You can spend hours typing about the effectiveness of every large breed but the Mastiff, but when it comes to personal protection, there is no better protector than a Mastiff.

 

Dogos, Filas and Presas are great hunters.  I'll give you that. 

 

If one of your kids had  a friend over the house and they decided to wrestle, I'd hate to see what would happen with a Dogo/Fila/Presa in the house.  A Mastiff would just watch and take it all in.  He's not going to flip out.

 

If anyone looks at me the wrong way, my Mastiff will be watchful without flipping out.

 

You came on here because of the Presa post.  Realize that a Presa is not a Mastiff.  Presas are beautiful, awesome dogs, but they could never match a Mastiff in power, strength, or their ability to discern the bad guy.

 

H

 


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Prime

Registered: 03/24/12
Posts: 15
Reply with quote  #93 
To hman,
-
Very true, if not dead on. When I say I want top hunting dog's that dish out, output power, it is only in the mean's of self defense, I wouldent just stand there for hour's, waiting for them to kill the boar or be killed in the same process. No! Ive seen way to many documented video's, of single bashing's of the bear or slight glance's of the boar's tusk, cutting open the dog's throat's, to be that nieve an let my boy's have a novelty show, of putting up entertainment, No! that's never happening.
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But my conclusion for hunting with beagle's, blood hound's deplict's the whole hunt or trek itself. Beside's Blood hound's an pointer's do there job exceptionally well, if not the best an find the boar or bear, they become confused, in all of course alerting you of there location, threw barking. If they should strike which most, depending how many dog's you use, an expecially they are not ment to kill them, just bait them for time, unless you are an suped up olympic runner, an can run at the same speed's of the dog's to keep up with there extreme acrobatical speed's then why bother sending your dog's on a trip that grentee's a 60% chance of never coming back. In most caes'es, I mean "majority" of the story's Ive heard 60% of the time, hunter's lose 1 or 2 dog's before they even get to the location of the barking of real "Gamed animal's".
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I dont think anyone can top what you said, the animal's we kill, deserve respect because in term's they are providing for us, not the other way around. In also I'm trying to implement what your trying to say. So go to "Youtube" an type in [Willie nelson sings the scientist] from coldplay watch the one on cartoon farming, an tell me that isint on your mid either, I know for a fucking fact, it's on mine.
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Again I dont treat animal's in barbaric way's, I've seen too many of that threw media, that rial's me up, an pisses me off, in the extent they just use stupid alibing, to back up there claims like the one's I alway's here..
1. We kill them because we have a right to.... ME: BULLSHIT!
2.There going to die anyway, so my dis well have fun doing so....ME: BULLSHIT!
3.There number's, are increasing to heavly..... ME: BULLSHIT!
4.We are man, that's what we do.... ME: BULLSHIT

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Prime time
h

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Reply with quote  #94 

Prime,

 

I think we might know a bit more about you now and I think it is good.

 

One shot.

 

H

 


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Prime

Registered: 03/24/12
Posts: 15
Reply with quote  #95 
Oh Okay, so your a another poorly educated person on the matter, read what I said of the boer boel's temperment in multiple posting's, they are not ment to be fighter's, they are guardian's. Hense you've just proven there intire reason of there purpose an creation. They guard not attack.
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Pfft, an please, dont mention bullshit, that your dog was the reason they turned around, that's there temperment weirdo, that's why they excell more than any mastiff, they will only lay tooth on you for good reason, what is it? Putting there family an property in danger, which appearntly they thought you did by going in there zone, belive me, if those two boer boel's are adult's an male's an decided they have to persue you, ...you know ... as how the breed kills hyena, that has one of the most hardest bite's in the animal kingdom. Boerboel's do not fight, they kill, when the time is called upoun. Pfft... your bullmastiff would have been on the 6 oclock new's, as a mauled dog, if they intended on killing you.

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Prime time
h

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Reply with quote  #96 

Quote:
your bullmastiff would have been on the 6 oclock new's,  as a mauled dog, if
they intended on killing you.

 

I don't have a bullmastiff.  I don't think anyone on this site has one.

 

You asked Steve about the dog on his avatar.  The dog is an obvious Mastiff.  We are not a bullmastiff site.

 

H


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Prime

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Posts: 15
Reply with quote  #97 
To hman,
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First of all, reguardless of what type of mastiff you have, because there are over 20 type's of pure blooded mastiff's, an it would be suicide to initate 2 Boer boel's, who are detremined to kill you, because rarely this is the "Fact" of the Boer boel's "temperment", try googling what power house dog kills the most people per year, the Boer boel has only one account on a man, in its intire exisitance of hundred's an hundred's of year's, which other mastiff's like the Bull mastiff has literaly thouasnds, why? Because that was what they were made to do somthing both Bulldog an masiff breed's do, the masiff is the man stopper an bull dog is the man maul'er, Ergo, combining both traits to a more balanced dog, same with the Boer boel, there temperment geno doesent give them an erge to fight an kill by will. Hense those Boer boel's, did they attack you? No! They just asserted there pressence, to let you know not to cross a boundrie.
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Ergo, if you really think that your mastiff scared them, then intiate a scene that your mastiff is attacking there owner's, an watch what they were made to do. But you know that's being sarcastic, unless your that foolish.
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Now, for your claiming Presa canario's are not mastiff's true, but they are part mastiff being a what? Banndogge, every single banddoge has atleast 25% mastiff, For what? There job title. Unless you think the more dog's the more sucsess rate of hunting, even if you were to send a hundred chiwawa's to kill one leopard they would fail, in what the Boer boel was made to do, which is contend in "self defense", not go out looking for it. Hense what make's that dog "tempermaent", it does'nt mean a fighter will alway's win, he is just prone to {starting} the fight.
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Again nothing better than a mastiff, what type of mastiff? Because other's out shine each other, in just guarding from burglar's.
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Now, for your kid's playing with other kid's? Are you kidding me, I love my boy's but never in a million year's, I'd let some other kid or even man come near my dog's an play rough with my kid's in front of my boy's, they are dog's, that have the intelligents of a 8 year old at best, an is unpredictable no matter how much socializing or theapy dog training they go threw. Hense my anty's pup pitbull at only 8 mounth's bit one of my nephew's just a few week's ago, now I'am tolerant in my dog's biting me, if I raised them all my life, I'm okay with that, an think of it as playing rough, but I would never put a scene involving "kid's" who are fragile to the touch, play with a 150 pound dog, Maybe a pup or chiwawa, winnie dog, or jack russel, an again if my pup's was raised with my kid's then yeah maybe under supervision. They can be shown leniancy an a little more trust, not stranger's. But my anty, is just lucky those werent my dog's, because when it come's to disapline I'm the wrong guy you wanna be breaking rule's with, espeacially on a 10 year old kid. When guess an aquaitnce'es, come then put them in the back room an lock it, there's nothing wrong with having a few minute's of alone time.
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Dogo's, Fila's, Presa's are good "hunter's"? Uh.. duh! I wouldent want one of them to guard somthing, that is not there temperment. They will go over board in persuing someone, espeacially the "Fila", who I dont need to tell you that there is no other man hater more profound than the Fila. Other than there owner's, good luck with not being sent straight to jail, when your fila maul's your neighbor.
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If your dog dosent look at any one as you say "wrongly" who put's a threat on you, than that's a poor excuse of a dog, or has been raised wrongly.
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Lastly, you must be kidding me to think of what you just said is true, of a Presa cant contend with any mastiff guard dog, more like it's the other way around, show me a video of any mastiff outshining the capabilities an dutie's the Presa perform's, which I mind you, is flooded on youtube in how much, speed, stamina, power, intelligent's, will, the Presa has over even the most highly trained mastiff'(s) in training demostration's, of different scenario's.

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Prime time
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Registered: 03/24/12
Posts: 15
Reply with quote  #98 

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You must be kidding me, if that's your dog in the pic, that is supose to put up any accord to this dog, espeacially when there was 2 of them. Who this dog is 210 pound's an still not obese or sloppy, Is considered to be the most toned an athletic mastiff out of all mastiff breed's, an the most favored temeperment of never being too agressive, only what Ive been saying for the past so many post, they will only assert them selve's when what? The time is need'ed, not when they feel like being agressive, it will go against hundred's of hundred's of year's to perfect that exact temperment.
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Your only trying implement your stronger, which is not the case or not the topic, which is performance. Not my dog will beat your dog, if so why didnt I include him in the list I made of top 10. Is it just me being bias? Fuck no, these are the elite's in killing other oposing contender's, who I know of there accounts by video's, an not made up storie's.
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Mastiff's as a no-brainer, of course can contend an use what they have natrually, but they sure as hell, dont win the majority poll.

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Prime time
Prime

Registered: 03/24/12
Posts: 15
Reply with quote  #99 
Crap, my pic of a prime boer boel didnt come out, oh well's. lol, Tootle's, hey did I just repost?
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Prime time
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Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 2,666
Reply with quote  #100 
Here we have a  rather (doubtful) topic of mathematical & other interests . Started on 20th July 2011 (546 days till present) and now counting 27439 hits for 105 replies (261 hits per reply) and averagely 50 hits per  day . It presently gets 120 hits per day , far more than any other ‘sleeping’ topic (since 31th March 2012) here on forum . Figures mean nothing on their own but only ‘sleeping’ members cannot see the ‘machinization’ behind it . Why ? Is there no reason to be bothered ? I only needed to read the last posts to grasp some ?content? of it . What you say ? Is this enhancing the value of this World Mastiff Forum ? Do we need to play ostrich vis-à-vis such kind of contents because we’re living in a ‘free’ world ? Is it bad to place this into the 'limelight' and is the messenger only an embarrassing kind of police ?
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